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Thread: Max wheel/tyre size for Gen 1 MPS 3

  1. #41
    SMOKEY is offline Forum Freak
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    We are going round and round and I doubt anyone is truly qualified to give a definitive answer. So in summary im gonna say:

    Bitumen is all about rubber on the road and contact patch is king.

    Do me a favor and try this experiment: take one finger and drag at backwards across a table. Now take four fingers, and drag them backwards across a table. Which provided more resistance (grip)?

    You've just witnessed the 'physics' of a wider tyre.

    End. I'm out!
    Last edited by SMOKEY; 30-04-2012 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #42
    RedDjinn is offline Slip stream
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMOKEY View Post
    Guys, who feeds you this info?! - contact patch has nothing to do with the height of the tyre (rolling circumference) unless you run stupid low psi to make the tyre bag out. See afore mentioned reference to slicks on drag cars, or eg. I used to run 19psi in my street tyres at the drags because....yes, larger contact patch!

    Grip is all about rubber on the road, ie. contact patch.

    Contact patch at street psi is everything to do with WIDTH. Yes you need weight over the tyres to assist with grip - look at an SS ute with no weight out back, or understand why a FWD is always at a disadvantage when it transfers weight to the rear under acceleration - but saying you achieve grip through a smaller surface area to dissipate weight using skinny tyres is just madness. And plain wrong. Will an SS ute hook up better on skinny little tyres? No way in hell!

    (The only time weight over skinny tyres would assist you in grip is if you're going though deep mud or snow (not sand) in something like a 4WD when you need to cut through the material. That is the only concession I will make - but bitumen is pretty friggn hard, so it's irrelevant).

    Bitumen is all about rubber on the road. Do me a favor and try this experiment: take one finger and drag at backwards across a table. Now take four fingers, and drag them backwards across a table. Which provided more resistance (grip)?

    You've just witnessed the 'physics' of a wider tyre.

    End.
    Think somewhere someone is miss read, what you just said is true... BUT thats on a track we are talking about a road car, that involves tracking cornering braking etc i think thats the miss direction

    Talking road vs drag.. we are all right we were refering to different things
    Last edited by RedDjinn; 30-04-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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  3. #43
    SMOKEY is offline Forum Freak
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    Last time I checked a track surface was the same as the road we drive on every day.....more or less, and OP was asking about how to get more traction off the line.

    Anyway, OP, stick to the sizes Mazda intended. Get some stickier rubber. All will be well. Just expect to replace more often and at higher cost. You can have the widest (or skinniest ) tyres possible but won't matter a damn if it's cheap, hard rubber.

  4. #44
    08 mazda3 mps's Avatar
    08 mazda3 mps is offline Full Member
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    Has anyone got photos of a 235 wide tyre on a stock Gen 1 3MPS rim???

  5. #45
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    i put up photos of 225/45's on stock rims somewhere...
    dont think you would want to go any wider

  6. #46
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    235 on 7.5 would probably not be that great for handling and possibly illegal? I have 235/40 on 8.0 rims and even they have some tyre bulge. admittedly Advan AD08s seem to be wider than other brands in the same size

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    Quote Originally Posted by 08 mazda3 mps View Post
    Has anyone got photos of a 235 wide tyre on a stock Gen 1 3MPS rim???
    http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/handl...tml#post182877
    225/45/18 on stockies, balloons a bit
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  8. #48
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    Cheers for the replys guys and good point lup15 about handling. The 225 dont seem too bad sarrcastic one. Did you notice a difference in grip to the road on take off???

  9. #49
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    I had 225/45 when I had my stock Gen 1 rims on. However rather than the width, get better quality rubber as this will have more of an improvement compared to 1cm of wider rubber. if you can, wider + better quality will be win.

    the Kumho KU36 which I had on the stock rims were very good for the price. They do become a bit crappy towards the end of their life though (rubber hardened) and wear quite quickly.

  10. #50
    vphat is offline Junior Member
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    can we go 18x8 + 35? is there a chance at all?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by vphat View Post
    can we go 18x8 + 35? is there a chance at all?
    Minimum legal offset is +40 - the legal offset change is -12.5mm (max track change is +25mm - lower offset increases track), the OEM offset is +52.5
    No chance legally, and no chance in terms of hitting guards and cutting your tyres up, which can and does happen at +48 offset, especially so on lowered vehicles.

    No chance at all.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Federal RS-RR - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold - Hypertech tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - PC based GPS and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

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  12. #52
    RedDjinn is offline Slip stream
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    Minimum legal offset is +40 - the legal offset change is -12.5mm (max track change is +25mm - lower offset increases track), the OEM offset is +52.5
    No chance legally, and no chance in terms of hitting guards and cutting your tyres up, which can and does happen at +48 offset, especially so on lowered vehicles.

    No chance at all.
    If you want to miss your guards when lowering, this has not been done 'I think' other than me............. Take 3mm off the hub of your rotors! What this does is offset your wheel offset and make it safer on your wheel studs as there less likey to snap.. Im only running 18x8.5 +48 and i got rubbing on the rear when in a fast hard corner BUT not anymore

    The Brembo BBK i got the front rotors were 2.5mm thinner than stock
    Last edited by RedDjinn; 08-12-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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  13. #53
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    vphat.

    Gen 1 or Gen 2?


    I had that set-up on my Gen 1 with 235/40 rubber and even with rolled guards at the rear I would suffer rubbing anytime I would go hard around corners, too fast over sharp bumps or the worst case scenario was having people in the back seats, then rubbing would be happening pretty much for anything regardless how careful or easy you would try to drive.


    My guards were a mild roll so I would say that to make it work you need more than mild rolled guards, maybe getting them a little pumped.
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  14. #54
    vphat is offline Junior Member
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    but u were on 235 for that setup, why didnt u go 215 stretch it abit though its illegal but would be okay

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by vphat View Post
    though its illegal but would be okay
    Mate going to +35 moves your outside sidewall out 17.5mm at the shoulder if you have 215 fitted.
    225 at +48 moves the shoulder outward 9.5mm and that can rub.
    Add another 8mm outward movement of the shoulder and you're cutting your tyre up on the gaurds

    Illegal and not OK.

    Do yourself a favour : get a calculator and make an effort to understand what offset is, how you are changing things with a fitment and then measure things out. It's not black magic.

    I've watched people spiel bullshit time and time again about what can fit and how it never rubs, and even been abused for calling them out on blatantly false statements about you can and can't do.

    235/40 +45 is the widest, lowest offset you can reasonably fit with aggressive rolling of the gaurds....lowest legal offset of +40 will need the guards pumped. If you want to do something illegal and crazy try to remember that there are other people on the road, and please don't create false illusions in what are supposed to be informative threads about what you can reasonably fit just because it's something you want to do and want someone to tell you it's OK.

    It's not OK without significant re-engineering. If you want to go the whole hog with engineering certificates and pumped guards etc you can do it if you throw enough money at it.

    If you want to know what you can fit without fairly radical work, then 235/40R18 on 18x8+45 is it. I would tell you to do yourself a favour and find a +48 wheel.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Federal RS-RR - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold - Hypertech tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - PC based GPS and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift.

  16. #56
    vphat is offline Junior Member
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    well im just asking and saying, i get your information that you given but it was just a thought of mind, how i was saying it...

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Max wheel/tyre size for Gen 1 MPS 3

    http://www.willtheyfit.com/

    Hey vphat check that website out. Hope it helps.

    Sent From A Galaxy2. IPhone Sucks. Using Tapatalk2

  18. #58
    SMOKEY is offline Forum Freak
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    Default Max wheel/tyre size for Gen 1 MPS 3

    And JapCrap could also point out that he is successfully running 19x9 +42 on with 235 section rubber ...... and the world hasn't ended.

    Soo.......

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMOKEY View Post
    And JapCrap could also point out that he is successfully running 19x9 +42 on with 235 section rubber ...... and the world hasn't ended.

    Soo.......
    But I notice he hasn't pointed that out. From the specs you just provided I can tell you it's probably illegal : not because the tyre certainly rubs, but because the wheel face will sit outside the guards - no part of the tyre or wheel fitment is permitted to sit outside the gaurds unless that's how it comes stock. A plumbline from the guard will tell you for sure.

    I can also bet that he's on 235/35. It's worth noting that smaller diameters will rub _less_ but ultimately the location of the outside sidewall is where the real problems arise regardless.

    I know his are sitting +6mm +5mm = +11mm further out than mine. I am still making adjustments to ensure mine with 225 and +48 don't rub. Add another 11mm and he'll need much more adjustment to avoid rubbing.

    Additional camber helps. Smaller diameter helps. Very, very aggressive rolling of the guards, perhaps a subtle flare even _might_ get his under the guards without rubbing.

    I'm fairly confident that a vertical plumb from the guard at that fitment will foul the wheel face if not the sidewall. Show us a pic of it parked on the level with a plumbline from the guard.

    If you define illegal but not rubbing much as successful, then you can call it successful, but it doesn't make it legal, and it doesn't make it a good recommendation.
    People ask for advice and get illegal and sometimes outright stupid recommendations unless someone steps up and says it like it is.

    I do understand the 215 at +35 idea was just a thought. It was also a thought presented as "would be OK"

    If someone is going to recommend a fitment as being OK in a thread where people come for good advice, then the assessment needs to be based on objective measurement and observation and strict interpretation of what is permissible, not subjective hope and liberal interpretation of what is "OK".

    Comparing it to the world ending is a great example of taking non factual information and framing it to minimize and ridicule a valid point. It's a pathological thought process, soo....

    If you're going to make a point, try to make sure you have a point to make.

    Sorry for being a hardcase. Hey, I've got a picture on my phone of an S2000 with a lowered fitment like that. Looks good, right up until the moment he starts it and tries to drive over an undulation at an intersection. Then all of a sudden he looks like an idiot and when you look closely you see that he can't go anywhere without rubbing and look closer still you see his guards are damaged and starting to rust from constantly fouling the tyre. Successful? The world hasn't ended yet, so by your arguments, perhaps so???

    Again, if anyone asks me I'll tell them the limits as below. 235 on +45 is pushing it a bit close. I reinterate - do yourself a favour and find a +48 wheel.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Federal RS-RR - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold - Hypertech tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - PC based GPS and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift.

  20. #60
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    Default Max wheel/tyre size for Gen 1 MPS 3

    Quote Originally Posted by SMOKEY View Post
    And JapCrap could also point out that he is successfully running 19x9 +42 on with 235 section rubber ...... and the world hasn't ended.

    Soo.......
    @PremHK ran my GenII rims (18x7.5) with 245s semi-slicks
    Seems alright to me


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