Oh No! Smokey Turbo Bro!

[Reedy]

Dropped it off this morning. Will be a very different car when I get it back!

[SarcasticOne]

Dropped it off this morning. Will be a very different car when I get it back!

270 killer wasps?

Hoping you've been overly paranoid about the lag and it drives just like it used to

[Reedy]

Ok I picked the car back this afternoon and it is dramatically improved from where it was at with the unhealthy turbo. I copied the torque curve into excel for the sake of comparisons.



All well and good, she drives a LOT better than before.

My issue then starts when I compare it to previous healthy tunes with the K04 installed. I have had the car tuned at Tunehouse 3 times now, and the second one was my favourite. That is what is shown compared in this next graph.


Now there could be a few things at play. Jim knows how I drive this car so has definitely taken a conservative approach, but the fact that the peak torque is NO better than it was with a healthy K04 sucks, not only that, but it doesn't even come close to the old curve until quite a bit later in the rev range.

The ultimate test will be when I take it to the racetrack on Sunday but I've got a feeling that unless you start running slightly higher boost pressures then the BNR isn't really worth using. Either that or there are some other gremlins in my engine that we might need to find. It might take some tweaking to get it performing properly, maybe an AP tune might be the way to go because so far I am feeling somewhat underwhelmed.

All that said, it is much, MUCH better than it was a week ago but given how I know the car CAN perform, it's hard to shake the fact that the response is well down on before. I was hopeful that any loss in response would be offset by a beefy midrange and better top end but that simply hasn't happened. Peak power is the same 195kW that I had before so we will probably want to have more work done to get it at least making decent power if we need to sacrifice the response.

[Reedy]

I've taken the car for an actual drive now and you definitely feel the lack of response around 3000RPM. The mid range and top end do feel fast tho. Very fast.

I took some logs and this tune is running at 19PSI as well, the old K04 tune was only 17PSI. There is definitely something going on here for it to be running higher boost yet putting out comparable numbers only with worse response? The mid range and top end definitely feel very strong on the bum dyno but something for me just doesn't quite add up.

Thankfully I will be hitting the racetrack on Sunday to make an actual judgement on all this but if nothing else, it is MUCH better than with the old dead turbo. It could all just be Jim being extremely conservative with the tune because he knows better than anyone how hard my car gets driven. The last thing he needs is a blown engine on his record.

[lup15]

man you lost a lot of area under the curve. I would feel exactly the same if I got that. If anything I would've thought the same response but better top end. Maybe try an etune?

edit: I would've expected more with the BNR since you also upgraded the TMIC. I noticed better response when I changed the TMIC from stock on the k04. gotta be something in the tune...

[SarcasticOne]

Only thing I can think of is major change in ignition timing...

With the bnr being a better (supposedly) turbo, he could turn up the boost a tad, still have lower boost temps then previous, and make same power...

Am a bit amazed at the big gaping hole down low tho...

[Jamesa2z]

Here's my dyno graph for comparison - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ms9t04bycn...803_111301.jpg (Although the different format may be difficult to directly compare...)

I actually emailed and called TH after mine because I was concerned that it wasn't conservative enough for track use. They told me my tune WAS being conservative for the bolt-ons that it had. With the TMIC change and proper boxed intake I would have thought your torque gains would have been greater than that, but Jim knows his stuff some I'm sure there's a reason. If nothing else, it may just be the fact that the BNR S1 simply isn't a K04...

[shaneski]

I had the same feeling when they tuned my GTX2867 felt crappy before 4000RPM and it was running 21psi, went etuned and it was a different car and responded like a k04 even around 3000rpm. We put it down to the ignition timing, it ran a max of around 6 degrees advance with Ecuteck compared to around 12 degrees with the etune. Maybe knowing you track the car it was done to stop wheel spin out of corners etc

[Reedy]

I am perfectly capable of controlling my own wheel spin. Any conservative angle taken here is all about preserving the engine, not the tyres.

[allo80]

I had the same feeling when they tuned my GTX2867 felt crappy before 4000RPM and it was running 21psi, went etuned and it was a different car and responded like a k04 even around 3000rpm. We put it down to the ignition timing, it ran a max of around 6 degrees advance with Ecuteck compared to around 12 degrees with the etune. Maybe knowing you track the car it was done to stop wheel spin out of corners etc

This article shows how much the MZR engine responds to ignition timing when knock is kept in check via e85
Blog : The power of E85 and a good tune : Stratified Automotive Controls

[mickos]

Looking at natsoft
I guess your not too impressed aye @Reedy back to tunehouse to do a touch up

[SarcasticOne]

Looking at natsoft
I guess your not too impressed aye @Reedy back to tunehouse to do a touch up

Didn't compete in second session... Weird...

[Reedy]

Yea, slow as balls.

She spat a whole bunch of oil out through the air filter as well. Not sure if it was overfilled or some other gremlin is lingering. Either way a fairly forgettable day.

[DD3]

Yea, slow as balls.

She spat a whole bunch of oil out through the air filter as well. Not sure if it was overfilled or some other gremlin is lingering. Either way a fairly forgettable day.

Could it be that you've got a crook PCV valve letting boost into your crankcase, forcing a bit of oil out of the valve cover breather into your intake?

[Reedy]

That's one of the possibilities. Could also have been overfilled at the last service, not sure.

[RedDjinn]

Reedy I have a brand new pcv valve i never used. I also have brass check valve that fit between mani and oem pcv, to ensure seal.

[Reedy]

Will see what we need but am starting to wonder if this smokey turbo wasn't smokey after all.....

[mav2777]

Same issue I had on the track, oil coming out of valve cover. I have a perm plate & catch can. Did a leak down test. No1 cylinder not holding pressure. RedDjinn will be entrusted to rebuild it. Is it using oil ?

[Reedy]

Never heard of the Perm Plate. Can that be fitted with the engine in place or does it need to be removed first? I don't want to start messing around with the engine and the fact that I have run without any issues for the last 4 years makes me think something else has gone wrong but it's another option nonetheless!

[allo80]

PCV Plate

PCV Plate Installation Guide

No need to remove engine, should take a few hrs.