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Thread: Cam Driven Fuel Pump Issues

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    1,165

    Default Cam Driven Fuel Pump Issues

    Take what you want from this.

    Okay, So quite some time ago I mentioned the car was stumbling in the top end. I merely blamed it on three possible reasons and they were; crap fuel, crap intake and the possibility of having a dirty Air sensor. Alas it was neither of these. In fact it is actually the fuel pump not being able to support the need of fuel the engine longs for.

    This pinching/choking whatever you want to call it never went away. That said it never occured on a consistant basis. Car would choke occasionally, mainly around 5000-5200RPM. The feeling is like it is hitting the rev limiter except that isn't where the limiter is.

    What most of you probably don't know is that there was a TSB (technical Safety Bulletin) released in North America, Mexico and Canada detailing the following;

    Applicable Models:
    2007-2008 MS3
    2006 -2007 MS6
    2007 -2008 CX7

    Description:
    - Rough idle, stall and/or hesitation under cold conditions
    - Intermittent lack of power during accleration when engine is hot.
    - MIL turns on DTC P2177/P2187 (fuel system to lean at off idle)

    caused by;

    1: The drive of current PCM is not enough for some fuel pumps.
    2: Some fuel pumps have slower response.

    Models with build date prior April 2007 require warranty vehicle inquiry using eMDCS system and COMPLETE REPLACEMENT OF FUEL PUMP.

    Full TSB Report

    The DH log below shows the issue perfectly. A log showing 1600-1700 on FuelPresDI is a good pump, anything less is a faulty pump!!

    NOTE: FAULTY!!!!!





    For the benefit of all of you that have mods and access to a dashawk PLEASE log your fuel rail pressue. No matter what mod or ecu option.. IINCLUDING THE XEDE BOYS!!!

    Due to the CDFP not being able to deliver the amount of fuel required, the PCM limits the amount of boost to correct the air drawn into the engine. This ensures that the PCM maintains a correct AFR. At no point, does the AFR go lean. Power is sacrificed, in order to save the motor from a lean mixture.

    Mazda Australia are aware of this issue, they simply have done nothing about analysing the CDFP but rather have just provided a PCM update that does NOT rectify the issue. It merely clears the stutter and provides more hesitation.

    I really want people to be aware of this issue, modifications or not!!! tune or not!!!

    Wayne and the guys testing this tune are very aware of this issue. It is likely they will log cars before a tune to ensure they are suitable. Also, Wayne is likely to import kits from the USA to modify and uprate the CDFP.
    Last edited by 2000MNLESS; 18-12-2008 at 01:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Street Road Laino View Post
    I'm never drinking again

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    Log Once pump kit was installed



    Big change!!!

    This kit was installed 5000+ kms ago, and the car has not missed a beat since

  3. Default

    When you're idling at the lights, should your fuel pressure id still be around 1600-1700, or is this just during "foot to the floor" accelleration?

  4. Default

    I've logged my DH FuelRailID, and she sits around the 1600-1650 mark when I punch the accellerator. No stuttering, so the pump must be ok for now. I'm still looking for a more reliable replacement though..

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    No pressure should be fairly low when idling. Once on WOT it should be around 1600-1700psi. Sounds like you have a healthly pump Ward.

  6. #6

    Default

    If you have a working CDFP, you will be good for at least 300 awhp. Generally speaking the stock ones are pretty reliable for what they flow, as I haven't heard of anyones healthy pump going bad. I could be wrong (at work atm so can't check) but I think people in the US were running +340 awhp on the stock pumps? You can however buy upgraded pumps(kits) which increase flow by 50% from the US.

  7. #7

    Default

    Fuel pressure depends very much on what you are doing with the throttle.

    At WOT, you should be able to maintain ~1700PSI rail pressure for best performance. If you log it, and you get dips well below this, typically at higher RPMs, you will need to consider some sort of upgrade.

    As an IMPORTANT NOTE HERE......!!!!!!!!!

    Regardless of tunes etc, the car does not run lean. Unless of course your tuner has done something flaky. All the logs I have taken and examined show the same thing. The car aims for a particular AFR, and does what it needs to in order to maintain it.

    In NO CASE did it come close to lean.

    Getting hold of kits in the USA has been a seriously bad proposition, so this is why EPS and HOT purchased the technical plans to make them ourselves here. These plans are for the kit sold by PG, and also for a new version. We are doing what we can to get these done. It has turned out to be very difficult indeed.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuliaj View Post
    Generally speaking the stock ones are pretty reliable for what they flow, as I haven't heard of anyones healthy pump going bad.
    Sorry, but we have........

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    In the Hills, South Australia
    Posts
    98

    Default

    Yeah ive got the CDFP kit in my MPS3, its fixed the surging/stuttering i was getting around the 5500-6000rpm range. Car now pulls smoothy through the topend.
    Last edited by BlueMPS3; 13-11-2008 at 07:24 PM.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sassimac View Post
    Sorry, but we have........
    You're referring to people who's pumps had no problems and had been logged as such, then all of a sudden logged showing they could not maintain the +1600 psi under WOT?

  11. Default

    This is not just the isolated to the fuel pumps, Mazda Aust also havn't carried out any of the recalls.
    Turbo
    Pipe clamps
    Fuel pump
    LED display
    that's off the top of my head, maybe a few more.
    All these car's are built by one one plant.
    Thanks Mazda Australia for the support.

  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpsgarage View Post
    This is not just the isolated to the fuel pumps, Mazda Aust also havn't carried out any of the recalls.
    Turbo
    Pipe clamps
    Fuel pump
    LED display
    that's off the top of my head, maybe a few more.
    All these car's are built by one one plant.
    Thanks Mazda Australia for the support.
    Add to the list:

    Bad shocks
    Bad end links
    Bad ball joints
    Bad CV boots
    Bad Aircon dash panel (the 3 dials - mine was loose, had to have it replaced)
    Squeeky front seatbelt restraints
    Squeeky seatbelt towers.....

    Hell, i think the whole car should be recalled!

  13. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sassimac View Post

    Getting hold of kits in the USA has been a seriously bad proposition, so this is why EPS and HOT purchased the technical plans to make them ourselves here. These plans are for the kit sold by PG, and also for a new version. We are doing what we can to get these done. It has turned out to be very difficult indeed.
    Working for Caltex refinery up here in QLD, we get a lot of exposure to industrial pump manufacturers. If you want, I can do some leg work and get you some contacts?

  14. #14

    Default

    Wardski...

    Nothing atm would make Sam and I happier, but to be able to get kits out to you all. I get emails and PM's constantly. It is a great mod, even for stock cars.

    These kits, are components only that need to be machined to a VERY tight set of specs, materials AND heat treating. So far we have had no luck, and have forum people very generously helping us to find a companies that can machine these up for us.

    This is another one of those things we are trying to resolve....

  15. #15

    Default

    I had mine installed this afternoon and it's definately one of the best mods out there. My car feels like it's back to life.

    My car was tuned at 19psi but sometimes it didnt feel like it which was kind of strange. So now the pump is in, i don't feel any power loses what so ever.

    If anyone here in Melb needs these things installed, message me, my mechanic mate will do it for a decent charge

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Narellan, NSW
    Age
    36
    Posts
    624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MS3 View Post
    I had mine installed this afternoon and it's definately one of the best mods out there. My car feels like it's back to life.

    My car was tuned at 19psi but sometimes it didnt feel like it which was kind of strange. So now the pump is in, i don't feel any power loses what so ever.

    If anyone here in Melb needs these things installed, message me, my mechanic mate will do it for a decent charge
    Where did you source your internals from? How much?

    I am waiting on HOT / EPS to release theirs, the exchange rate sucks ass at the moment..

    edit: Just read on OMC that you got it from MPS Garage.. Are these the same ones that HOT / EPS will be selling?
    Last edited by kblume; 01-02-2009 at 09:29 PM.

  17. #17

    Default

    I actually got mine from PG awhile ago, it's just been sitting here

    I believe it totalled to about $350, still not that bad for a mod like this

    You should wait it out for the new versions of it, but i seriously doubt it'll make that much difference in terms of what it does. You'll see when you open it up.

  18. #18

    Default


    That was a good write up 2000mn, the problem you were having, I had the same, I asked about it in the ozmadzda forum, all I got was bad fuel etc. etc. no mention of fuel pump. but in saying that I have now had my ecu flashed by Wayne, his recommendation was to get the fuel pump up grade.
    At the moment I am in the process of getting one. so nice too see that people do find it makes a difference.
    I am not sure If I should start another thread, for this question, but I will ask anyway. I would like some feed back on what people think or have experienced with one step colder spark plugs ?.
    and this is what gets me into trouble

  19. #19

    Default

    Hey mps jim,

    I’ve got the coldest denso spark plugs coming in soon, and will let you know how they go.

    Since you’re from the SE suburbs we can meet up to have a chat, anyway pm me

  20. #20

    Default


    Fitted the CDFP upgrade today, If you have mechanical skill it's a easy job.
    Well after the first drive, I am very pleased, it now complements the flash revs out too 7000 rpm it's smooth and with no hesitation.
    I would recommend getting one fitted.

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