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Thread: Noisy thrust bearing / clutch issue

  1. #1

    Default Noisy thrust bearing / clutch issue

    Hi all,

    Thought I would post up a thread to get other peoples opinions on this issue.

    Since buying my Gen1 MPS (used) I have noticed a loud noise coming from what appears to be the thrust bearing. I have also experienced what I deem rather poor shifting. I took it to a certain Mazda dealership, and they said the noise / shifting was normal. On the next service they swapped the oil to Penrite SYN 75/90. It improved the shifting a bit, but the noise stayed the same.

    I just had the car serviced again, and I tried a different dealer as I was unhappy with the previous dealer (for other reasons). They advised the car needs a new clutch kit and I would need to pay for it. I am not convinced it needs a new clutch as the clutch does not slip at all, but they claim the pressure plate is worn which is making it harder to shift / hard to get into gear sometimes.

    So, what do people think? Don't want to shell out the cash (Especially since the car is still under warranty) if I don't need too.

    ---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------

    Symptoms:
    -Loud metal on metal type sound when clutch is out. Goes away when I push the clutch in.
    -Poor shifts which are worse when cold. Second gear is by far the worst. I can change gears fairly smoothly if I change gears slowly. Don't really notice a problem at high revs.
    -Sometimes hard to engage a gear. E.g: Come to a stop, go to engage first and it wont go in. Release clutch, and try again and it will go into gear.

    Extra info:
    -Corksport rear engine mount inserts
    -JBR solid shifter bushings
    -GEN 1 MPS
    Last edited by boost; 11-05-2011 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #2

    Default

    think all Gen1 MPS have the noisy thrust bearing, mine does. Some ppl have replaced it, but it later came back. Regarding hard to get into 1st, I also have this issue. Sometimes when at a standstill, I try to engage 1st and it stops halfway. I have to disengage the clutch and try again, which then works. I had this problem in my previous nissan.

    Having said that, my shifts are still very good, especially when warmed up. stock gearbox oil too.

    do you have an aftermarket rear engine mount yet? the gen1 MPS 3 has VERY sloppy gear shifts from factory because the engine moves around so much. getting a rear engine mount greatly helps with this. I have a CPE 60duro rear mount and also a turbine tech front engine mount. I am 100% certain these 2 products have directly resulted in my better gearshifts.

    also describe what you mean by 'poor' gearshifts. I am assuming its just the general sloppiness you are describing and not really the gears grinding

  3. #3

    Default

    I should have added more info. I have corksport rear engine mount inserts, and JBR solid shifter bushings.

    When I say poor gear shifts, mainly it just does not feel smooth. If i change gear at a normal pace when cold, it will crunch very slightly. I need to change very slowly to avoid this.

    The shifts improve as the gearbox oil warms up, but I still feel like I have to put a fair bit of pressure on the gearstick for it to go into gear (which doesnt really feel smooth), whereas if I rev match it will slide in smoothly.

    Once again, this is much worse in second gear.

  4. #4

    Default

    hmm, I'm nearly inclined to say that its normal from what you are describing. but I'm sure what you are feeling is totally different. I nearly always rev match downshifting, so have forgotten how it feels to downshift without rev matching. If you have issues up shifting, then thats different all together and sounds like there might be an issue. In one word to describe the MPS gearbox, would be 'clunky'

    the corksport inserts do help, but only to a degree. from what I've read, they soften up a fair bit. If you're in bris, feel free to give my car a drive. otherwise, it might be worthwhile meeting up with a fellow MPS driver in your state with a rear engine mount (not inserts) to compare.

    I would invest in a rear engine mount before doing anything drastic like a clutch kit (a lot cheaper too). Like you said, if the clutch isn't slipping, then I don't see why you need to replace it. unless you're having to rip the gears out or you grind in every gear, it seems the clutch is engaging/disengaging properly

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks for your help. The problem seems to be mostly with upshifting... Especially first - second.

    I guess the only way to know for sure if there was a problem would be to drive another GEN1 MPS. (Unfortunately I am in Melbourne though).

    I will definitely look into the rear engine mount before spending such a considerable amount on what may not actually fix anything.

    I actually said to Mazda that I was hesitant to change the clutch incase it made no difference to the gear changes. He said "We have changed a few in the past with a 'revised clutch kit' and it improved the shifting".

    So I thought I would check with others first to see what everyone thought.
    Last edited by boost; 11-05-2011 at 07:09 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Armadale, Melbourne
    Posts
    968

    Default

    We have a few guys in Melbourne with a Gen1 and am sure will be willing to help you out. Which part of melbourne are you at? I'm usually at Point Cook but have just been shifted out to Geelong for 3 months. Otherwise, I would be happy to let u have a comparison...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Surrey Hills, Victoria
    Age
    49
    Posts
    5,866

    Default

    FWIW my Gen II has thrust bearing noise also. Been there pretty much since day one. I'm not really concerned by it as the clutch is working A1, but I'll mention it in passing to the guys when it goes in for its next service to see if they need to make any adjustments


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #8

    Default

    From all accounts, it sounds as if the noise is normal. I would hate to pay the cost for a new clutch, only to have the noise come back / no change in shifting.

    The problem definitely seems second gear related, whereas the other gears tend to be fine. I can't see how it'd be the clutch if the other gears aren't a problem.

    I am also curious as I have read others have had the clutch replaced under warranty for this issue, yet I have been told I will need to pay for it.
    Last edited by boost; 08-08-2011 at 04:19 PM.

  9. #9

    Default

    I have the same sound and my car has done close to 100,000kms now, I purchased it with 71,000kms and the noise was already there, it seems to be more noticeable on FWDs than RWDs from what I have experienced, depending on the kms your car has done it may pay to replace the clutch anyways, I think it is common for clutches to last around the 100,000 mark or more, it also depends heavily on the driver i.e. if they ride the clutch often or if they dump it all the time.

    I wouldn't worry much about the trust bearing noise, if it is really worn it would start to slip or you will also notice that the clutch pedal is sitting real high up or not level with the brake pedal. With regards to the shifting I know exactly what you mean, I replace the oil in my gearbox with Penrite GL4 75-85 oil, I also have 2XS solid shifter mounts, JBR heavy gearknob, JBR SS kit and TRZ Dog bone street mount, the shifts were quite good with the first four mods, and the engine mount made it totally better!

    From what you describe it reminds me a lot of my old Honda where the bearing noise was bad, the clutch was worn but not slipping and it used to crunch in third rather than second, just home it's not a second gear synchro, and like I said it would probably be a good idea replacing the clutch anyways, if you think of it this way, it will at least be cheaper than replacing a synchro....
    Do Not Fear Torque Steer...

    ZOOM F*cking ZOOM Biatch!!

  10. #10

    Default

    Honestly, I think I make it sound worse than it is, but I am very picky.

    The car has only done 67k, so I would be extremely surprised if the clutch was on its way (Unless the previous owner gave it a hard time). It has never slipped, and will break into wheelspin if I give it a hard time. When the car is cold, if i shift slowly, it will go into gear ok. If I shift at a normal pace it will be a bit rough / harder to get into gear.

    Once the oil has got to temperature, shifting is fairly easy, but second gear in general feels much harder / not as smooth to get into gear as all the others. For example, 3rd to 4th will glide into gear. I wonder if it would benefit from trying to adjust the cable?

    Also, I think I will have to meet up with some of you guys so we can see the difference in the noise coming from my thrust bearing.

  11. #11

    Default

    I get the same when cold, I think most manual gearboxes are like that.

    Yes do try adjusting the cable, that is one thing I forgot to mention which made shifting feel much nicer, if you can take off the center cup holder plastic and take it for a drive in a car park and try different adjustments, thats how I fine tuned my and it worked a treat!

  12. #12

    Default

    Sounds like a plan. I will do that and will definitely look into installing a proper aftermarket engine mount.

    Does anybody have a torque wrench that would either lend / help me install it one weekend (I would look after you)

    No problems installing it myself, just don't have a torque wrench

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Werribee, Vic
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Sounds like a plan. I will do that and will definitely look into installing a proper aftermarket engine mount.

    Does anybody have a torque wrench that would either lend / help me install it one weekend (I would look after you)

    No problems installing it myself, just don't have a torque wrench
    Tighten till it strips then back off half a turn no good for you?

    Where you at?

    Gots me a torque wrench, but i am way out west...

    Chris.
    '05 MPS 6, Liquid Silver Metallic, Leather, Sunroof.

    DashHawk, TurboSmart Dualport, COBB SF SRI and TIP, CPe REM, 2XS Titanium SSP, Coolant bypass,
    Exedy OEM spec clutch, Corksport SS Braided Clutch Line, ROH Mantis 18*7.5+45.

    Growing old is compulsory... Growing up is optional...

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Sounds like a plan. I will do that and will definitely look into installing a proper aftermarket engine mount.

    Does anybody have a torque wrench that would either lend / help me install it one weekend (I would look after you)

    No problems installing it myself, just don't have a torque wrench
    I've got tools at my mates house, we got a torque wrench and all, I'll send you a PM...
    Do Not Fear Torque Steer...

    ZOOM F*cking ZOOM Biatch!!

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victa View Post
    Tighten till it strips then back off half a turn no good for you?

    Where you at?

    Gots me a torque wrench, but i am way out west...

    Chris.
    do not do this. you will get unwanted engine vibrations. there definately is a sweet spot, i think the workshop manual states around 85nm, cant remember exactly tho

  16. #16

    Default

    Yeah I won't. Will definitely use a torque wrench.

    Anyway, thread update with good news...

    Came home from work and adjusted the shifter cable. It has made a big difference! I can now shift much more easily into first / second.

    Will have to do further testing from a cold start, but wow! It now changes gears smoothly.

    Now I am wondering why Mazda didn't try this in the first place? I am 100% convinced nothing is wrong with the clutch now.

    If Mazda are stating the thrust bearing should be changed, should this be covered by warranty?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Werribee, Vic
    Posts
    472

    Default

    To clarify...

    I do have an actual torque wrench if you are out west...

    Chris.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    1,413

    Default

    If your noise goes away once your foot is pushed down I would be inclined to say you have a main bearing noise and not a thrust bearing noise, this is because once you depress the clutch pedal the internals of the box stop spinning and the bearing noise stops. Had your noise not changed or gets louder when your pedal is pressed it would be your thrust bearing as the pressure plate and bearing are always spinning while engine is running.

  19. #19

    Default

    Glad to hear that the fine tuning of the shifter helped, it is almost like night and day the difference it makes.

    With mine it was particularly hard to get into 5th due to the JBR shift plate pin rubbing on the Air box, I made this adjustment which helped but seems better now, I guess the pin has torn a hole into the box lol

  20. #20

    Default

    Tested this again this morning from a cold start. and it has definitely improved alot.

    Might play around with it a little more to see if I can improve it anymore. Highly recommended for anyone having trouble with certain gears.

    And MPS2NV(Sorry don't know your name) I am not sure if it is the thrust bearing or not. Mazda advised me that it was, but they also said it needs a new clutch... so who knows?

    The noise definitely disappears when I press the clutch pedal in, and comes back when i release the pedal. One thing to note, is the noise seems to get quieter when I reach 4th gear and above. I don't know if thats because I can't hear it as easily, but it seems quieter.

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