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Thread: Die-ing Turbo

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Gap - Brisbane
    Posts
    83

    Default Die-ing Turbo

    I think my turbo is about to die with only an easy 44,000klms on the clock. Its more than 12-months out of warranty now so Mazda aren't gonna want to know.
    Four times now, over the past few months, when idling in traffic it starts to blow heavy bluish-white smoke. Thick enough that the guy behind will disappear. Quite embarrassing really. When you drive off it stops after 50-metres or so. Might go some weeks before doing it again.
    I have spoken with the guys at CES Racing here in Bris about this and Trevor is sure the problem will be turbo seals. About $2K to replace with a refurbished unit with better seals and bearings.
    I am thinking while its laid up in the shop I might spend a bit more and get them to do their full exhaust (mild steel only) from Turbo back as well a tune. Might be about $4K+ by the end of this but it will be far more reliable in the future and will certainly go a whole lot better.
    Any thoughts?
    Cheers, Clarry
    Mods: MazdaSpeed CAI, Blue Callipers, Custom Striping ("whiskers"), Garmin Nuvi 760, ScanGauge II, MPS FloorMats

  2. Default

    Thoughts:

    Turbo dieing: Sad news.

    Trip to CES for goodies: Happy news...

    Maybe a BNR turbo upgrade is in order while you are mucking around in the engine bay?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North side, Vic
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    37
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    6,745

    Default

    Might as well go the bnr for that amount of dosh

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    hunter valley
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    Default

    2xs or corksport DP ( u can use the 2nd to save $$) and BNR...

  5. #5

    Default

    Seems like a lot of MPS turbos have taken up smoking in the past month. I would also suggest BNR

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Perth Hills, WA
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    444

    Default

    My turbo appears to be on it's way out as well, Clarry.
    I have only just recently installed a DP, TIP, and 3" exhaust and I'm pretty sure that this combo contributed to the apparent demise of my snail.
    If I had my druthers, I'd do exactly what you're proposing, but probably with a BNR stage 2 turbo.
    In for a penny, in for a pound, mate.

  7. #7

    Default

    May I ask why choose a rebuilt BNR? If you need to change a turbo, why not go for brand new Garrett turbo instead (i.e GT3076)?
    If you read on mazdaspeed forums, more yanks prefer Garrett over BNR. The cost may be significant between 2. But if you want to upgrade, why not do it with a bigger & better turbo?

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    May I ask why choose a rebuilt BNR? If you need to change a turbo, why not go for brand new Garrett turbo instead (i.e GT3076)?
    If you read on mazdaspeed forums, more yanks prefer Garrett over BNR. The cost may be significant between 2. But if you want to upgrade, why not do it with a bigger & better turbo?
    The costs are alot bigger mate,

    with the T3 ur gonna need forged internals to support the huge flow, + maybe bottom end work... big $$$ (and thats assuming its a bolt on kit, otherwise + costs for custom mani and other supporting pipes... the BNR's dont need any of that , both would require upgraded fuel pump tho, or better internals...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    Default

    The other thing is, a stage 1 or 2 bnr won't sacrifice much in the lower rev range... you only have 6500 or so rpm to play with, don't want there to only be usable power for the upper 2500 do you?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    hunter valley
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    Default

    there are so many variables with these engines. i feel if u run a stage 1 BNR with fmic,cai,DP standback no need for internals. But if u start messn with flashes above 5500- 6000rpm with big power gains u will need forged internals. Speaking from experience

  11. #11

    Default

    ^^^ what they said

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Gap - Brisbane
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    Default

    I'm not after huge gains here. CES tell me they have achieved +200WkW on these cars with nothing more than their refurbished std turbo + their full exhaust treatment + tune. Along with quite substantial torque gains as well. I already have the Mazdaspeeed CAI fitted. This car will give me all I can handle (or need to) with this.

  13. #13

    Default

    I reckon you got the right idea, BNR stage 2.
    Affordable quality upgrade.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Gap - Brisbane
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    Default

    Anyone have an idea what the additional cost of "hi-flowing" the std turbo would be about since its off for a rebuild anyway?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    hunter valley
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    Default

    You can get 200kw with cai, tbe, tune!!

    I got 211kw fmic, tbe,intake, bnr stage 1 on standard boost....... untuned ( only the limiters where off with flash)!!!

    with tune they hit 240kw

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rayd View Post
    The costs are alot bigger mate,

    with the T3 ur gonna need forged internals to support the huge flow, + maybe bottom end work... big $$$ (and thats assuming its a bolt on kit, otherwise + costs for custom mani and other supporting pipes... the BNR's dont need any of that , both would require upgraded fuel pump tho, or better internals...
    So you reckon BNR Stage 2 & 3 would require forged internals? Wouldn't that require the heads to be machined? That itself is a massive job. If you're committed to machine the heads, why not go with a full rebuilt & have a bigger turbo? Supporting mods such as the exhaust manifold will be a bitch to fabricate on the MPS. Doubt that the exhaust manifold from ATP Turbo will bolt on without any issues.

    I do understand that the cost for a turbo upgrade with its supporting mods will cost a lot. The last time I calculated it was close to $12K without new ECU! It's a lot of money to spend on increasing the boost! MPS is such a expensive car to mod!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by luke 3mps View Post
    there are so many variables with these engines. i feel if u run a stage 1 BNR with fmic,cai,DP standback no need for internals. But if u start messn with flashes above 5500- 6000rpm with big power gains u will need forged internals. Speaking from experience
    Luke mate! I trust your experience in engine rebuilt! I know that you're building a beast and I have been following your thread very carefully just in case I start doing it as well!
    Addicted to Boost.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    hunter valley
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    Default

    BNR stage 1 is about $1300-1400

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
    So you reckon BNR Stage 2 & 3 would require forged internals? Wouldn't that require the heads to be machined? That itself is a massive job. If you're committed to machine the heads, why not go with a full rebuilt & have a bigger turbo? Supporting mods such as the exhaust manifold will be a bitch to fabricate on the MPS. Doubt that the exhaust manifold from ATP Turbo will bolt on without any issues.

    I do understand that the cost for a turbo upgrade with its supporting mods will cost a lot. The last time I calculated it was close to $12K without new ECU! It's a lot of money to spend on increasing the boost! MPS is such a expensive car to mod!!!
    no no, what i was reffering to when i said "better internals" at the end was to put better internals into the existing fuel pump as an aternative to replacing it... to save some $$

  19. #19

    Default

    BNR stage 1 - std motor internals - Cost $1400
    ATP 2871 - std motor internals - Cost $1800
    ATP 3076 - for safety sake - new rods etc - Cost $1900 + internals


    BNR High flow a std MPS turbo. (2nd hand housings etc)
    ATP manufacture a brand new turbo

    DP and system $2k easy. (good for 20Kw ish @ wheels)

    200Kw can be made with std turbo.

    Forget the upgraded fuel pump internals, The std item is good for nearly 300Kw @ wheels (safe for 360Hp @ wheels - I've had it checked and flow tested)

    I have been there with the upgrade, 28/71 will be an increase over std. It'll be a direct bolt-on either way you go ATP or BNR.
    Forget the engine build.

    I also have a BNR stage 1 sitting around in the workshop.

    My thoughts, Buy an ATP 2871 (or 2876) for $1900, fit a Twin DP and high flow cat for $1k, fitting will be around $1000 for both items at the same time.
    Tuned for another $1000, and then your budget starts to increase. $5k already. But, you will easily make 230Kw @ wheels using your current CAI.



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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wahroonga
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clarry View Post
    I'm not after huge gains here. CES tell me they have achieved +200WkW on these cars with nothing more than their refurbished std turbo + their full exhaust treatment + tune. Along with quite substantial torque gains as well. I already have the Mazdaspeeed CAI fitted. This car will give me all I can handle (or need to) with this.
    Totally understand, most of us would be thinking very similarly in your situation. That said, if you troll around enough forums you'll find the the KO4 turbo is designed for a 1.8L engine. Without making a loooong thread about this, what it means is that your well off the Turbo's efficiency map by the time you get into higher rpm so your just generating heat and noice without increasing power. It is a balancing act, but a slightly larger turbo's (BNR Stage 1 or 2) efficiency map, more closely suits th 2.3L engine. So you get that extra power, without increasing the stree on your engine (you could argue that you actually decrease the stree in higher RPM compared to the std. turbo).

    Not that I don't think CES know what they're doing, we all know that they do, but high flowing the std. turbo has been known to cause issues over in the states. You literally just make it easier for it to blow hotter air faster, as removing any airflow restrictions allow the compressor to spin harder, which isnt the best answer to the efficiency problem.

    I guess what I'm trying to get across is to not just rule out the BNR option. They shouldn't be considerd a "big-turbo" upgrade. In my mind, KO4 was a silly choice on Mazda's part when they put this engine design together. The BNR options seem to address that problem nicely.

    I'd also note that BNR arent the only option for getting this kind of work done. There are plenty of turbo shops in aus that will do very similar works for you, possibly at a lower cost than getting it from the USA.

    Good luck which ever road yuo choose to travel

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