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Thread: Paint Protection Dilema

  1. #1

    Default Paint Protection Dilema

    I've had my MPS for almost a year now - black Gen II.
    Stayed clear of the dealer promoted paint protection and (before joining this forum August 10) had after market protection called Infinity professionaly applied.
    Missed washing the car for one week in the recent record heat wave and on the second week there were a massive amount of spots that would not wash off. Some of them were clearly evident before washing and a lot of others showed up like water marks when drying off after the wash.
    Took matters into my ownhands and did a clay brick job ater washing and then applied two coats of the original product again.
    The surface felt smooth and the shine returned but again this last weekend after a wash back came the watermarks.

    Any suggestions.
    Happy to start again with a totally different product if necessary and if possible. Not sure how hard it is to remove the original.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    If a claybar didn't do the trick then a cutback + polish probably would but I wouldn't want to do that unless it's really necessary.

    Ps. Welcome to the world of owning a black car =P

  3. #3
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    Hi Wal,

    Sorry to hear about your troubles!!! I'm not an expert on paint protection for cars, but I have been using Prima Products from Zen Automotive and have received a lot of good advice from ZAS (Joel) who runs this company. Maybe you could shoot Joel a PM? He would certainly be able to give you some advice.

    I'm attempting the Prima paint protection kit this weekend..... Caffeine Fiend (Dan) and PostmanDan (Dan) have both completed this kit and the cars look absolutely amazing!!! Perhaps after you get the water marks sorted you might want to try it, links below:

    http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/detai...how-guide.html

    http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/membe...-mobile-3.html
    GENII 2009 MPS VR POV PACK | TIPS THANKS TO MAZDA3MPS (IAN) | KUMHO KU36 235/40/18 TYRES | PRIMA PAINT PROTECTION BY ZAS | LAKIN CUSTOM PLATES | MPS & OZMPSCLUB.COM BRUSHED ALUMINIUM DECALS (THEY COUNT AS MODS RIGHT?)| WISHLIST...60 DURO REAR ENGINE MOUNT | RIMS PAINTED/GT RIMS

  4. #4
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    Hi Wal,

    Claybars are good for removing random detritus and flotsam that stick themselves to your car over a period of time. Things like road tar, tree sap, exhaust fumes, paint overspray etc

    However they'll only ever remove things that are above the surface of the clear coat. Sometimes marks can start to eat their way into the clear coat (acid rain is a good example, along with bird poo etc), and whilst claybars will clean up and remove whatever is still on the surface of the clear coat, they won't get what's eaten its way below it.

    For those sorts of marks, you'll need a product that is capable of correcting (or levelling out and removing) those marks in the clear coat. Water marks and the like don't generally tend to go too far into the clear (we're talking microns here), however the only way to get rid of them is to polish them out with a paint correction compound.

    After clay barring, I use Meguires Ultimate Compound, which when used by hand, is great for removing water marks etc

    ZAS Car Detailing Products : Meguiar's Ultimate Compound 450ml G17216

    It's also more forgiving to use than many "cutting" compounds.

    In terms of an applicator, I can recommend the Lake Country Orange Hand pad: ZAS Car Detailing Products : Lake Country Foam Hand Pad Orange

    As a site supporter, ZAS offer an OzMPS Membership discount on products purchased through them. After you set up an account on their site, you can PM ZAS (Joel) and give him the details of your account and he'll set you up.

    In terms of paint protection, I'm not familiar with the Infinity product, so can't really comment. Again you can PM ZAS (Joel), and ask him how it compares to the Prima Paint Protection product he sells (and a few of us here use)

    Cheers,

    Dan
    Caff Mobile Mk1 - 2010 Aluminum Gen II | 2XS SRI | H&R Lowered Springs | cpe 75 Duro Engine Mount | Whiteline Rear Swaybar | Moog "Problem Solver" Rear Endlinks | 3M Carbon Black Tint | Lakin Custom Plates | Opti-Coat Paint Protection | Paint Correction by Me - SOLD

    Caff Mobile Mk2 - 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe - Sapphire Black Metallic | Stock....for now

  5. #5
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    ...Or Polishing Fiend could give you some advice

    Great info Dan, very informative

    Ps... It appears you have an echo

  6. #6
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    It does

    It does

    Fixed now

    Fixed now






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeine Fiend View Post
    It does

    It does

    Fixed now

    Fixed now

    GENII 2009 MPS VR POV PACK | TIPS THANKS TO MAZDA3MPS (IAN) | KUMHO KU36 235/40/18 TYRES | PRIMA PAINT PROTECTION BY ZAS | LAKIN CUSTOM PLATES | MPS & OZMPSCLUB.COM BRUSHED ALUMINIUM DECALS (THEY COUNT AS MODS RIGHT?)| WISHLIST...60 DURO REAR ENGINE MOUNT | RIMS PAINTED/GT RIMS

  8. #8

    Default

    I think you guys pretty much have this one covered

    Highly likely the product you had applied has worn from the surface by now so this is why you got the damage.

  9. #9

    Default

    Thanks for the advice all
    This is the third black car I 've had, the first with professional paint protection and the first to go belly up in less than a year.
    The others I hand polished with Meguiar's. Sure it had to be repolished occassionally but you could see that coming and never ever an overnight failure.
    I guess we live and learn

    Thanks again

  10. #10
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    Hi Wal, no problem

    As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm not familiar with the Infinity product, however if it's similar in product and application to the Prima paint protection (which I suspect may be the case), it's something that does need a modicum of ongoing maintenance to continue being effective. And even then, it will inevitably wear down to the point where it's basically non existent. Pretty much what Joel was alluding to in his post above.

    I find it best to think of it in terms of layers. Forgive me if I'm being simplistic here, but I'm a simple person and this is how I break it down in my own head

    First there's the undercoat and paint

    Then there's the clear coat, which protects the paint and, just as valuably, brings depth and shine to the paint.

    The clear coat is the critical part, as it's typically the surface that's exposed to the elements, but also critical to the overall finish of the car. It has the hardest job on your car's finish as it's got to be tough, but look good while doing it

    So the ideal thing to achieve, is a way of lightening the load on the clear coat's responsibilities, by giving it some assistance in the protection department. This is where polishes, waxes, and paint protection products come in.

    Unfortunately, there's a myth out there that paint protection products are a permanent solution to protecting your car's clear coat. That short of gunfire, your car's paintwork will be protected for years and years. This is often too perpetuated by sales people in dealerships eager to make extra margin on top of the money they made selling you the car in the first place.

    This is why 'paint protection' has become somewhat of a dirty phrase to many people. Because people are given unrealistic expectations of the product and it's lifecycle.

    The reality is that majority of these products only provide a temporary, or as I think more accurate, 'sacrificial' layer which protects the clear coat. Sacrificial, because they will eventually wear away with washing and the elements, but they'll protect the clear coat in the process.

    The best DIY paint protection products, applied in the best possible way and maintained to the best possible standards will give maybe 6 months of good protection for your clear coat. After that they need to be re applied. There are a few exceptions to this which extend beyond this, but I think you'll struggle to get more than 12 months under daily driver conditions (Joel please correct me here if I'm wrong).

    That may not sound like a lot, but when compared to many waxes and polishes, which on their own, give maybe a few weeks of protection, it starts to make some sense.

    Once you understand its limitations, paint protection is actually not such a dirty phrase anymore, but unfortunately it gets a bad rap because people don't take the time to point out the limitations to a potential sale.

    Hope this helps

    Dan


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Caff Mobile Mk1 - 2010 Aluminum Gen II | 2XS SRI | H&R Lowered Springs | cpe 75 Duro Engine Mount | Whiteline Rear Swaybar | Moog "Problem Solver" Rear Endlinks | 3M Carbon Black Tint | Lakin Custom Plates | Opti-Coat Paint Protection | Paint Correction by Me - SOLD

    Caff Mobile Mk2 - 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe - Sapphire Black Metallic | Stock....for now

  11. #11
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    It gets a bad rap because dealers charge an arm and a leg for something that provides only a minimal benefit and for a somewhat short period of time.

    You're better off waxing the car regularly then paying thousands for paint protection, the cost of it just blew my mind when I bought my car.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reedy View Post
    It gets a bad rap because dealers charge an arm and a leg for something that provides only a minimal benefit and for a somewhat short period of time.

    You're better off waxing the car regularly then paying thousands for paint protection, the cost of it just blew my mind when I bought my car.


    I agree with only part of what you're saying here Reedy. The part where dealers charge an arm and a leg. For the price THEY charge, yes I agree, it's not worth it. Penfold wanted to charge me a "discounted price" of $550 to do paint protection for mine. I told them to jam it.

    The Paint Protection I do for people (and have also done on my car), costs $250, which includes a full day exterior detail also (which is $150 of that $250 total price). This is based on the Prima product.

    Given all I've said above, I see that as very good value.

    Dan
    Caff Mobile Mk1 - 2010 Aluminum Gen II | 2XS SRI | H&R Lowered Springs | cpe 75 Duro Engine Mount | Whiteline Rear Swaybar | Moog "Problem Solver" Rear Endlinks | 3M Carbon Black Tint | Lakin Custom Plates | Opti-Coat Paint Protection | Paint Correction by Me - SOLD

    Caff Mobile Mk2 - 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe - Sapphire Black Metallic | Stock....for now

  13. #13
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    I did buy the paint protection. There were some stonechips on the bonnet which no paint protection can help with. But after the suicidal kangaroo I have a new bonnet with no paint protection and its wearing as good as the rest of the car. My verdict pp is waste of money (yemv))

    Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    $550, thats cheap!

    The paint protection that my dealer recommended to me was well over $1000! WHAT THE FUK?!

    $250 including a full detail is much better value, but still not something that I would want to make a habit out of.

  15. #15
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    It comes down to how it's applied also Aardvark. Most dealers don't do it properly (Ie multiple layers with curing time). Done properly it takes 2-3 days

    I've had dealers tell me "yeah it just takes an afternoon". Which can be translated as "we'll give a once-over with the stuff (instead of two good layers), let it sit for an hour to cure (instead of minimum 8hrs between layers as it should) then wash it (thereby pretty much removing any of the protection in the process because it hasn't had time to bond properly)

    Frankly I'd be amazed if your car had adequate paint protection to start with (if the dealer applied it that is)

    Dan


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Caff Mobile Mk1 - 2010 Aluminum Gen II | 2XS SRI | H&R Lowered Springs | cpe 75 Duro Engine Mount | Whiteline Rear Swaybar | Moog "Problem Solver" Rear Endlinks | 3M Carbon Black Tint | Lakin Custom Plates | Opti-Coat Paint Protection | Paint Correction by Me - SOLD

    Caff Mobile Mk2 - 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe - Sapphire Black Metallic | Stock....for now

  16. #16

    Default

    Hi Dan
    Thanks for the continuing info.
    Understand the layering of the paints anf finishes.
    Going to have a try with the Amigo on one area and if that doesn' fix the problem then I'll do the Meguiars you recommend.
    Looks like theres a lot of passion out there about how to look after the pride and joy. Thats great.
    I've stayed away from paint protection in the past as I was not aware of its availability beyond the dealer offer which at $1000.00 was not worth it.
    So up to now, on my previous cars (all black) I been doing the hand polish and wax every 3 months which seemed to keep the protection up.
    I use the Meguiars quick detailer after washing every second week to keep the embedded grime at bay.

    Thought I would give the paint protection a go on the new MPS. Still stayed away from the dealer product but took time to do some research. The manufacturer of the product that the Mazda dealer was flogging had about 4 different paint protection products all described as a different formula but all the ultimate best. When I phoned them the only explanation they could give me was they were each distribute through dealers for different car makes. Didn't impress me as a reason for them all being different but the best.
    Found the Infinity product in the process. Sounded good but still expensive at $700 odd. Took a day to do (short of the three days you suggest) and came with a 5 year warranty.
    Not going to even bother with the warranty.
    I 'll take you guide and do it myself and expect to redo it at least annually.
    Would have been more than happy if the guy I paid to do the Infinity had told me it needed an annual refresh, much better then the quartelry polish and wax.

    I am sorting out the products with Joel and will let you know how it all works out.
    Thanks again
    Wal

  17. #17
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    Hi Wal, great stuff. Glad to have helped. You're in good hands with Joel. He knows his stuff!

    Keep us up with how you go

    Dan


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18

    Default

    Dan is correct regarding waxes and sealants. 6 months is a good figure to go by for the very best of products. The Infinity product (Glare) would be in this range. The way you get longer from them is the exact same way we recommend with our Prima paint protection kit. By the use of "booster products".

    For Prima we use Prima Hydro, other products may use a similar type spray sealant or even a car shampoo that contains these sealant properties. The idea is that you apply the main sealant/wax which can be fiddly and/or time consuming, but then you maintain this layer with the booster product which is quick and easy to do.

    Most if not all dealer paint protections will be based around this system. If you read the fine print it will say you must maintain regularly with their products (which also cost a fortune) and these products will contain polymers etc to add to the protection.

    Opti-Coat is an exception to these rules, however it is not a sealant or a wax. It doesn't wear off (can only be removed with abrasives), but even it isn't a silver bullet. Damage can still occur over long periods of time. In this case though it is a thick coating. The damage will appear to be to the paint, but it is infact the Opti-Coat that is taking the damage.

  19. #19
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    On a side note, The Prima Protection Kit - sold by ZAS (Forum Sponsor) is amazing. I've used this since I first purchased my MPS.

    I wrote up a quick how-to guide http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/detai...tml#post118640

    Easy as, and results are awesome.

  20. #20
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    I recently applied the Prima paint protection kit to my black MPS and just wanted to post my support that the car now looks (and feels) fantastic (at least until it rained on it)...if only I had more time to actually wash it now

    Black car, never again!

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