Budget suspension mods....

[2000MNLESS]

Eibachs are far better than the kings straight off the bat. If you have intent to lower the car with A/M springs then I'd be looking at a set of adjustable shocks to compensate.. FSDs will suffice but the shorter spring will eventually chew out the shock. Still don't understand the facination with the endlinks, each to their own I guess......

The rear swaybar will be the best BFB mod for handling, especially in a FWD car. 'Welding a plate' just sounds 'ghetto'. I understand at what the guy is getting at but just do it right from the get go and buy a thicker rear sway.

[Grajy]

James, we can meet up and you can drive my car to see how the Koni/King shock/spring combo feel if you like.

[Nexus]

James, we can meet up and you can drive my car to see how the Koni/King shock/spring combo feel if you like.

Thanks for the offer. Might do that weekend coming up?

Here's what I've found with adjustable geometry swaybars. Numbers first :

Front:Rear sway bar rates

OEM - 100 : 100
Hotchkis - 135 : 195/240
Cobb - 135 : 150/190
Corksport - 100 : 120/145/180

front to rear bias as a ratio :

(a) WITH OEM FRONT SWAYBAR INSTALLED - REAR AFTERMARKET BAR INSTALLED ONLY
OEM = 1 : 1
Hotchkis X = 1 : 1.9494 / 2.3999
Cobb X = 1 : 1.5 / 1.9
Corksport = 1 : 1.2 / 1.45 / 1.8

(b) WITH 135% AFTERMARKET FRONT SWAYBAR INSTALLED
Hotchkis = 1 : 1.4444 / 1.7777
Cobb = 1 : 1.1111 / 1.4074
Corksport X = 1 : 0.8888 / 1.0740 / 1.3333

The only swaybar that seems appropriate to fit as a standalone is the corksport on the 120% setting.
Basically the higher the ratio, the higher the likelyhood of snap oversteer due to the bias...so installing a Hotchkis rear bar only on even it's softest setting would be asking for trouble I suspect. On the otehr hand the Corksport has a setting that should be happy for all. Hotchkis look like track specials to me...(?)

[Damnfuzz]

Wow, so many numbers.....

Whiteline have finally listed their part numbers for their bars (BMR57Z for the front and BMR88Z for the rear). Do we know the sway bar rates for them yet? Both front and rear are 27mm bars...

Adrian

[MattMPS3]

FYI, both front and rear Cobb bars are adjustable, not sure which adjustment position your 135 value relates to.

[Nexus]

FYI, both front and rear Cobb bars are adjustable, not sure which adjustment position your 135 value relates to.

135 is the front bar - they're all 135%
135 : 150/190

Front = 135%, Rear = 150% (softest geometry), or 190% (harder geometry)

With the ratio's, that's comparing the relative stiffness of front to rear swaybars...
Hence different ratio depending on whether an OEM front bar is installed or the aftermarket one - doesn't matter which one because the front bars are all 135%...

I wasn't aware the front bar is adjustable on the cobb, I took the data from their website, let me double check...

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

This cobb bar - not adjustable @ front - does their website need updating?


---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

FYI, both front and rear Cobb bars are adjustable, not sure which adjustment position your 135 value relates to.

It looks like it would be easy enough to drill a second mounting point - I would suggest that 135% is softest setting. Looking at the geometry of the bar, next step up would be approx 150% at a guess.

[MattMPS3]

Yep 2 holes in the front bar as well, mine are set at front stiff, rear stiffer.
Ill try and grab a pic for you over the weekend.

[Nexus]

Well, whiteline haven't seen fit to publish the actual stiffness either as a % or as a measurement. Without knowing that I wouldn't consider them...

Budget solution 1 - roughly adjustable via sway bar:
Koni FSD + Corksport rear sway @ 120% - soft street solution.
Set and forget solution, ready for front sway etc @ a later date.
I doubt I would never try it on the hardest 180% setting without a 120%+ front swaybar.

Budget solution 2 - more finely adjustable via shocks:
Koni Sport + King/Eibach spings - firmer street/occaisional track....
Very Tweakable

Thanks for the ride offer Grajy, but I'm sold on either.

I'm inclined to say it'll be #1 because I want something compliant for everyday street with gains in performance, handling and balance but I don't want to be adjusting it after the fact, and it'll only see occaisional track. FSD + Corksport rear sway stand out as safe, fun affordable, AND set and forget.

Do we have an "Authoritive strut fitment, cost, feedback" thread? I'm sold on Koni, but I'm interested what else is available...

[Bakis]

Bilsten B6's are great for stock height they apparently do it all but aren't adjustable, saying that thou apparently they dont need to be cause of there natural setup.

If you lower it you need to get B8's and there the same story.

[lup15]

dunno if it was already mentioned, but whats the purpose of the car and whats your driving style. from there you can work out what will work within your budget.

a drag car, track car and street car all have different requirements. set the suspension up correctly and a lower powered car can be quicker in each of the situations, particularly when you start getting corners and twisties involved.

also do right the first time. u have a good amount of power there, so don't skimp on suspension as good suspension will help make use of that power. same goes with braking

[Nexus]

dunno if it was already mentioned, but whats the purpose of the car and whats your driving style. from there you can work out what will work within your budget.

a drag car, track car and street car all have different requirements. set the suspension up correctly and a lower powered car can be quicker in each of the situations, particularly when you start getting corners and twisties involved.

also do right the first time. u have a good amount of power there, so don't skimp on suspension as good suspension will help make use of that power. same goes with braking

As I said, style of driving and requirement are mostly real world, with the a hint of balance adjustment. Any of these suggestions are going to be a significant gain, silly things like setting that front:rear sway (or shock) balance too hard for conditions aside...

Hence fairly set on the FSD with stock springs, slightly uprated rear swaybar. It's something that can have a front sway added at a later date, and fulfills desire for gains in the short term at minimum cost...It does make me look harder at a full sway solutions, but for now I know what I want...

lowered and adjustable sport shocks is appealing to me, but realistically, I'll be thanking myself that I leave it at it's current height. Track - no question I'd go coilies. They are not much money not much money for track purposes.

[bd581]

In the real world, I think you have the right idea james.
FSD + stock springs + sway bars will be the best comprimise. And the best choice for what you have asked.
Its no secret i love my FSD's. They handle well enough for 99% of driving, and the improvement was noticed within 50m of its first drive. Took all the harshness out of the suspension and smoothed the light corrigations in the road.
I run out of courage and ability before i run out of grip now.
Before, you could feel the limitations of the suspension before the tyres, now its the other way around.
I was sceptical at first because of the hype they get, but they deserve it.
Things to note, they have longer travel, I know longer cock a back wheel on uneven ground.
Koni say not to lower the vehicle with FSD's, yet on another page they say you can use the eibach, and they are sold as a kit. When i got mine, it was definately not to be used with lowered springs because there won't be enough travel and the springs are generally to firm to allow the FSD's to do their thing.
Possibly (might be worth an email to koni) koni and eibach have developed specific springs to suit, not the regular springs.
But as you have said that you wish to retain stock height, thats of little consiquence.
there is a good write up on the mazdaspeed forum on installing them, if you are going to do it yourself. Not a difficult job if you have the tools and patients.

I did write up a review and a few more installation hints, but the forum crashed and those posts were lost.
I'll have to get dad to reply to this thread and describe what he feels the difference on the road is between mine and another well known very sorted MPS he recently drove that has coilovers, sway bars etc etc etc

[BlueMPS3]

I had the Cobb rear sway on my MPS3 and loved it. It made a huge difference to the handling (I live in the adelaide hills) and suited my driving style when i did track runs.

I recommend a rear bar change as the best bang for buck handling improvement on a MPS3

[Nexus]

I had the Cobb rear sway on my MPS3 and loved it. It made a huge difference to the handling (I live in the adelaide hills) and suited my driving style when i did track runs.

I recommend a rear bar change as the best bang for buck handling improvement on a MPS3

No front bar for you? That's about the middle setting on the corksport, so that's good to hear - did you try it on the hard setting? That would be a very aggressive balance I expect

[BlueMPS3]

No front bar for you? That's about the middle setting on the corksport, so that's good to hear - did you try it on the hard setting? That would be a very aggressive balance I expect

I had it set on the hardest setting, which to me and my driving style was spot on for track work around Mallala raceway, also mine must have been a "older" version of there sway bar as it had 3 sets of adjustment holes on each side and was a 32mm "hollow" bar.

Front bar wasnt worth the hassle fitting for what i wanted from the car

[TD]

In the real world, I think you have the right idea james.
FSD + stock springs + sway bars will be the best comprimise. And the best choice for what you have asked.
Its no secret i love my FSD's. They handle well enough for 99% of driving, and the improvement was noticed within 50m of its first drive. Took all the harshness out of the suspension and smoothed the light corrigations in the road.
I run out of courage and ability before i run out of grip now.
Before, you could feel the limitations of the suspension before the tyres, now its the other way around.
I was sceptical at first because of the hype they get, but they deserve it.
Things to note, they have longer travel, I know longer cock a back wheel on uneven ground.
Koni say not to lower the vehicle with FSD's, yet on another page they say you can use the eibach, and they are sold as a kit. When i got mine, it was definately not to be used with lowered springs because there won't be enough travel and the springs are generally to firm to allow the FSD's to do their thing.
Possibly (might be worth an email to koni) koni and eibach have developed specific springs to suit, not the regular springs.
But as you have said that you wish to retain stock height, thats of little consiquence.
there is a good write up on the mazdaspeed forum on installing them, if you are going to do it yourself. Not a difficult job if you have the tools and patients.

I did write up a review and a few more installation hints, but the forum crashed and those posts were lost.
I'll have to get dad to reply to this thread and describe what he feels the difference on the road is between mine and another well known very sorted MPS he recently drove that has coilovers, sway bars etc etc etc

Good post, nothing to add other than that

[Vaku]

FSD/Eibachs are a fantastic combo, I had them on my SP25 for about 8 months (just put stock suspension back in as I might sell my car soon - see for sale section for suspension setup)

I travelled on the same roads and to my surprise the FSD/Eibach combo was smoother than the stock 'jittery' suspension overall - the hard bumps etc gave about a 15-20% 'firmer' hit assuming you cannot avoid them (such as the entry to the M2 from old windsor rd) but generally they are smoother/better than stock and I am very fussy in regards to comfort.

If i planned on keeping my car longer there is no way I would go back to stock, apart from the car looking a million times better it feels more planted and stable, body roll is significantly reduced.

good luck with whatever you chose!