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Thread: The enemy - suburu liberty gt

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbetty View Post
    ok I have always understood the 6 is not limited in 1st and 2nd in any way like the 3 is The test drive of the two back to back certainly felt quite different
    Hypertech Tune got ride of this and not only is throttle response better but also the limitation in the lower gears.
    Feels much more aggressive off the line. On occasion if feels like I'm "just" getting traction once the clutch is engaged in first gear.

    With great power comes great fuel consumption...
    M P S
    - 6 - RR | Cobb AP | CAI | TIP | ATP GTX28R | 3.25" TMIC | SS DP | REM | 3" Zorst | SSP Anchors & Countershift | DBA Rotors | K/Springs | Upper & Lower Bracing | Alpine Type S 12" sub MRP-M500 Amp
    | Grille | STi Lip | Shark Fin | 6000K HID | Fog Light Tint | Twin DEFI gauges | Custom Decals & Badges | LED lighting | CF Mirrors & Pillars | Black rims Red callipers

  2. Default

    no my question is was/is there any limitation in 1st and 2nd gears in the MPS6 anyway as I have always been led to believe there isnt. The MPS3 is limited because its too much torque trying to ram all that power thourhg front wheels in 1st and 2nd unlike the 6 which puts the power to all 4 wheels

  3. #23

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    [QUOTE=JohnnyC;153667]Also...forgot to say thanks for posting that gear speed chart dougmps. just curious...is there one available for liberty GT...and the MPS3 and/or SP23?/QUOTE]

    Sorry Johnny, none available unless you make your own. I constructed this one in Excel. Send me your speedo indicated speed in each gear at, say 1500 or 2000rpm and your maximum rpm and/or orange and red-lines and I can make it up for you. It'll be close enough if your speedo is accurate within normal limits.

    I am unaware of the MPS6 being limited boost-wise in 1st and 2nd. On very odd occasions, usually emergencies when I've had to get out of the way fast, I've come close to flooring it in 2nd gear from low speeds. It's a bit like being fired from a gun. Great in AWD, as there is no wheel-spin but just all go. Of course, the burst doesn't last long before a change to 3rd is required around 4500-5000rpm, but it's pretty sudden up to then, by which stage the emergency is over and done with, and enough to have recently caused a distinct gasp under G's from a passenger who until then had been used to my car being driven reasonably sedately (mainly for their benefit). I already related the story of a SAAB Turbo driver who had performed a similar move at the same time as me when a truck was bearing down on us. I vanished from his field of view like a UFO, simply reappearing at some other point. When he came alongside at another set of lights he wound down his window and asked "Whaddya got in that thing!"

    The MPS 3 has a torque limiter for obvious reasons, though I've never bothered to investigate how it actually operates, but it seems to be pretty smart. BB's comment is correct, to my knowledge.
    Last edited by Doug_MPS6; 25-01-2011 at 04:22 PM.
    CP_e Standback & PNP; CP_e 3" SS Downpipe; Corksport FMIC with Top-mount K&N filter & OEM Ram CAI; Turbosmart BOV; Dashhawk; Prosport Boost Guage; JBR solid shift bushes; DBA 4000 Wiper-Slot front rotors; Hawk Ferro-Carbon HPS Street front brake pads (@ 69,000km); Sumitomo HTRZIII's in 225/45 x 18

  4. #24
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    That's what I thought too Mel

    Dan


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #25
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    Limited boost in the 3 is well known however I believe its still there in the 6, perhaps not as much as the 3. Multiple runs on the Dash Hawk result in lower boost in the lower gears. We recorded data up to 4th and maybe 5th gear if I remember. I should really do some more runs with the Hypertech tune running and compare the results, but Toddy's DH has since broken. Might have to look into a repair or maybe one of us purchasing another to get some data for you which will support either argument. Happy to be proved wrong but I've known the MPS6 to still be limited in the lower gears. I can feel a difference in throttle post Hypertech tune though, which suggests there may have been a limitation of sorts from the ECU.

    I specifically optioned and removed the "0-60 limitation" on the module when flashing the ECU last which has made a difference. If we get round to comparing some data, I'll chase you up BB cause I know you've always been curious on the subject

    With great power comes great fuel consumption...
    M P S
    - 6 - RR | Cobb AP | CAI | TIP | ATP GTX28R | 3.25" TMIC | SS DP | REM | 3" Zorst | SSP Anchors & Countershift | DBA Rotors | K/Springs | Upper & Lower Bracing | Alpine Type S 12" sub MRP-M500 Amp
    | Grille | STi Lip | Shark Fin | 6000K HID | Fog Light Tint | Twin DEFI gauges | Custom Decals & Badges | LED lighting | CF Mirrors & Pillars | Black rims Red callipers

  6. #26
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    Rogwick - why not set the hypertech up with the limitations set to yes, run it around for a bit, then set it to no, and see if you feel any difference

  7. #27
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    I reckon with the limitation still there (not removed) it pretty much puts me back to stock. I can't really be bothered returning to stock, drive a few kms around for the ECU to learn new data, then reflash, then drive some more kms for the ECU to learn more new data again.

    My mechanic did comment when he test drove post tune and reckons the throttle response is much better in the lower gears. "She just wants to pull" was pretty much his comments.

    I'll catch up with Toddy and see if I can dig out my best-of DH log data which is saved at his place. Perhaps if we find either one of us get a new DH we can log some new data. If I remember, I was topping out around 13psi in first and/or second gear, then something like holding around 14-15psi in 3rd or fourth, but I'm guessing now cause I can't remember the exact figures.

    At least on the same graph we can get some throttle plate data and see the difference. I know now my current peak 16psi (as set on the gauge) is always beeping. Don't remember it beeping as much prior to tune, unless it was a honest thrash in first gear. In saying that, it was only a peak not holding pressure. Now its just annoying! lol. I'm thinking of setting it higher

    There was a bit of chat about boost re: MPS6 in this thread if you wanna poke around and click on links. It was a pretty open ended conversation.
    mps-tech-specs

    With great power comes great fuel consumption...
    M P S
    - 6 - RR | Cobb AP | CAI | TIP | ATP GTX28R | 3.25" TMIC | SS DP | REM | 3" Zorst | SSP Anchors & Countershift | DBA Rotors | K/Springs | Upper & Lower Bracing | Alpine Type S 12" sub MRP-M500 Amp
    | Grille | STi Lip | Shark Fin | 6000K HID | Fog Light Tint | Twin DEFI gauges | Custom Decals & Badges | LED lighting | CF Mirrors & Pillars | Black rims Red callipers

  8. #28

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    Maybe not an issue with Standbacks in the MPS6 - Daniel at MPSG should be able to confirm. And there is no steering angle sensor connected to a boost/torque/power limiter in the 6's that I am aware of.

    With the MPS3 I believe, but am not certain, that there is a torque sensor feeding data back to the ECU to limit power in 1st and 2nd, as well as a steering angle sensor. This would mean that the limitation would still be there in the 3's, regardless of a Standback or other ECU-only mod.
    Last edited by Doug_MPS6; 25-01-2011 at 05:23 PM.
    CP_e Standback & PNP; CP_e 3" SS Downpipe; Corksport FMIC with Top-mount K&N filter & OEM Ram CAI; Turbosmart BOV; Dashhawk; Prosport Boost Guage; JBR solid shift bushes; DBA 4000 Wiper-Slot front rotors; Hawk Ferro-Carbon HPS Street front brake pads (@ 69,000km); Sumitomo HTRZIII's in 225/45 x 18

  9. #29
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    The M3...

    "A GKN limited slip differential is standard, along with a six-speed manual transmission, anti-lock brakes, traction control and dynamic stability control. No automatic transmission option has yet been offered. To limit wheel slip, boost in the first gear will be limited to produce a maximum of 230 hp (170 kW), boost in second gear is also limited. The amount of boost reduction is determined by the gear selection and steering angle. There is no reduction of boost third or above." - Mazdaspeed3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Apparently the stand back doesn't fully open the throttle plate? Is that correct?

    With great power comes great fuel consumption...
    M P S
    - 6 - RR | Cobb AP | CAI | TIP | ATP GTX28R | 3.25" TMIC | SS DP | REM | 3" Zorst | SSP Anchors & Countershift | DBA Rotors | K/Springs | Upper & Lower Bracing | Alpine Type S 12" sub MRP-M500 Amp
    | Grille | STi Lip | Shark Fin | 6000K HID | Fog Light Tint | Twin DEFI gauges | Custom Decals & Badges | LED lighting | CF Mirrors & Pillars | Black rims Red callipers

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbetty View Post
    ok I have always understood the 6 is not limited in 1st and 2nd in any way like the 3 is The test drive of the two back to back certainly felt quite different
    As I read it, it was only the MPS3 that was limited in the lower gears in order to control torque steer.
    Thus, I didn't accept the "remove throttle restriction..." option of the Hypertech tune.
    I'll try it tomorrow and let you know if there is an appreciable difference.
    Last edited by guitar69; 25-01-2011 at 10:11 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitar69 View Post
    As I read it, it was only the MPS3 that was limited in the lower gears in order to control torque steer.
    Thus, I didn't accept the "remove throttle restriction..." option of the Hypertech tune.
    I'll try it tomorrow and let you know if there is an appreciable difference.
    I recommend removing the 0-60 restriction, as well as the other typical settings such as nominating the intake (if you have one installed) and the rest of the yes/no questions suitable to achieving more power. *You may not notice much of a difference, and to be honest, I wouldn't advise nailing your car right after the tune. I didn't notice all much after I tuned mine, in fact I was in conversation with Jenx, post tune as done ours at similar times. Every couple of days we were pretty much asking "any change?" As we both felt the increase was "average". It was hard to tell at first cause I was driving pretty easy, but after around 70-80kms after the tune I notice throttle response was much better. Boost seemed a little greater (more pull) in the lower gears and after I clicked over around 100kms I was bringing the revs up and even playing around with commodores, and launching from standstill.

    With great power comes great fuel consumption...
    M P S
    - 6 - RR | Cobb AP | CAI | TIP | ATP GTX28R | 3.25" TMIC | SS DP | REM | 3" Zorst | SSP Anchors & Countershift | DBA Rotors | K/Springs | Upper & Lower Bracing | Alpine Type S 12" sub MRP-M500 Amp
    | Grille | STi Lip | Shark Fin | 6000K HID | Fog Light Tint | Twin DEFI gauges | Custom Decals & Badges | LED lighting | CF Mirrors & Pillars | Black rims Red callipers

  12. Default

    The inside of the new GT is quite nice. Very comparable to the Euro cousins, seating-wise. The dash is still very plastic.

  13. Default

    yes at it makes you feel like vomiting when you see the outside of it, if you buy one just dont glimpse youself in shop windows you might have a vommiting fit and crash ... and yes it does look alot like the euro now which is also not very nice on the eye on the outside

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbetty View Post
    yes at it makes you feel like vomiting when you see the outside of it, if you buy one just dont glimpse youself in shop windows you might have a vommiting fit and crash ... and yes it does look alot like the euro now which is also not very nice on the eye on the outside
    @ Vomiting Fit. Very messy!

    Maybe they should throw in a bucket.
    Redbull is DEAD!!

    Long live the Redbull ... V2



  15. #35
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    Buy a bucket, get free liberty gt to ensure it gets used

  16. #36
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    Mmmm. I really don't like the shape of the new ones........ blerrrgh

  17. #37

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    My mate has a 2010 liberty Gt wagon. Stock with a tune.
    only 8000kms. it now has piston slap!

  18. #38

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^ retune to stock. back to the dealer it goes :P

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cton View Post
    My mate has a 2010 liberty Gt wagon. Stock with a tune.
    only 8000kms. it now has piston slap!
    Oooohhh, nasty.
    A Subaru is purchased because of it's reliability, not it's looks or charm.
    I feel sorry for your mate.

  20. Default

    I also test drove a Liberty GT before deciding on the 6MPS. At the time of purchasing the 6MPS the Liberty GT was not actually being sold by Subaru as emission regulations killed off the 2.0L turbo engine at the end of 2005, and it was 6 months (maybe 12, I can't remember) before they released the 2.5L turbo. If I had wanted a 2.0L GT the only one I could find was a demo.

    The link to the Wheels article that was posted earlier pretty much sums up my thoughts on the performance differences between the 6MPS and GT. I drove the 2.0 GT and 6MPS back to back at Tom Kerr in Sydney (and at Orange), and the step up in performance in the MPS when you hit boost was more aggressive, and once up and moving was significantly quicker in terms of in gear acceleration. The MPS pulled alot harder in the midrange than the GT, which felt more docile in comparison. Those characteristics are what sold me on the MPS. I've also driven the 2.5GT and while the low down torque improved it still didn't have the 'shove in the back' feel that you get from the MPS. I haven't driven the current Liberty.

    I preferred the exterior look of the previous model Liberty compared to the 6MPS, and still do, although Im happy with the look of my car with the exterior mods I've done. I also liked the interior and dash layout more in the Liberty and the McIntosh stereo craps on the mediocre Bose unit in the MPS.

    It's interesting reading people's posts on the Hypertech. While I feel the car has more power up top with the Hypertech installed (and it comes on boost slightly earlier), I have lost some of the mid range punch that I had pre-Hypertech. The power delivery is more progressive post-Hypertech, which I'm sure is better for the engine and drivetrain, but I do miss the aggressiveness of the original tune, when boost built more quickly.


    So even though I prefer the Liberty GT in some ways over the 6MPS, each time I see a GT on the road I do still see them as the 'enemy'

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