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Thread: 2XS Manifold Install.

  1. #1
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    Default 2XS Manifold Install.

    Well, Troy had his work cut out for him on this install; heat-worked studs etc snapping off and the like during install. 106,000K on the clock.
    So big thanks to Troy for dealing with all of that...

    At the moment I have only some first impressions as still taking it easy with it.

    First logs indicate at least 20-30Nm gain, but as I haven't tried to get one, I couldn't tell you a Kw peak.

    Throttle seems to be more linear, mostly I am taking it easy at the moment because I'm a bit shocked at how much on-boost noise is being made.

    I'm not sure if I've acquired the "kettle" noise previously discussed, however the moment it goes from vacuum to boost there's a LOT of apparently induction noise. It's very noticeable in the cabin with the windows up, less so with windows down.

    I'm not especially bothered by noise, but until I've checked with Troy that it's not a problem, won't be opening things right up to get measured peaks and a clearer idea of how things have changed.

    Instrumentation suggests everything is normal and as expected - boost peaking @ 18.9 up ~1 PSI....
    Last edited by Nexus; 24-01-2011 at 01:07 PM.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  2. #2
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    OK, the "induction" noise, or whatever it is, is not as imposing as I thought last night. Turn air-con on - can't really hear it over the aircon. It definitely starts at the vacuum/boost threshold, and grows with boost, but today listening to it, it's nowhere near as loud as I first thought. Funny how a new noise has you second-guessing. I'd like to know what's making the noise, I suspect that some carefully placed heatshield material or sound deadener would filter the noise and make it less intrusive - not that it's as loud as I first thought. Heatshield material was removed for the installation and this might be allowing more noise into the cabin.

    The manifold itself is has near equal shortest length runners, Troy put it together considering clearances for compatibility with larger (ETS) TMIC install.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The manifold is hi-temp ceramic coated (black coating), and I've already noticed reduced underbonnet temperatures. It's really quite impressive how little heat radiates off the manifold itself; certainly heat-shield for the sake of heat-shielding would be redundant.
    Throttle is definately more linear - less like a high-boost turbo and more of the 1:1 correlation between accellerator and throttle that a larger N/A would have.
    Other first impressions were that while watching fuel consumption on the highway, I think that there's been an improvement of cruise fuel consumption by as much as 0.5 - 1L / 100Km
    Cruising I'm watching 6.3-8L/100Km variations rather than 7-9L/100Km; time will tell.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  3. #3
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    Default

    i'll try and get a clip of the "kettle" for you (and others) in the near future, hoping to borrow a decent video camera to capture it

  4. #4

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    Mmmm, perty manifold.

  5. #5

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    I think all that damaged heatsheilding that was originally on you car would aloow some noise in.
    We did put in the pace pipe too More moise from that too???

    Open it up, I did All is good, go for it, log till you can't log no more.
    Achievements
    2009 Jamboree Street Compact Winner
    Aust. Quickest and Fastest MPS
    12.3 seconds @ 111Mph.
    Proven over the Qtr mile

    Another Mazda 3 MPS - Almost fully bolted - Waiting for a turbo upgrade - The weekend hack.
    Toyota Yaris - Coilovers, rollcage, raceseats, harnesses, 18s - Also waiting for a turbo upgrade.
    2011 AWD Territory - White and Slightly lowered on 22s - The tow car.
    2011 RWD Territory - Black on black and slammed on 22s - The family transporter.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    I think all that damaged heatsheilding that was originally on you car would aloow some noise in.
    Yeah, I had a good listen last night on the way home - it's surprisingly loud mostly because the underneath shielding is gone, I think. The floor gets warm on a long trip, so I'm going to get a replacement heatshield. (Free centre console cup warmer in the meantime?)
    For anyone who has recently had to cross creeks / streets-that-turned-into-rivers etc : Might be worth getting underneath and checking out the heat-shielding at the tunnel around your second CAT area. They don't like a good soaking, which mine had had several of over the last month or so. Mine was in the final stages of disintegration; rigid backing fibre/cloth was no longer rigid and resembled a black chux wipe, the insulation fibre had separated from the backing and the aluminium heat reflective material was separating from that, and was all generally tattered and falling apart.
    Troy's probably still finding bits of it floating around his garage...
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    We did put in the pace pipe too More moise from that too???
    Oh yes - second reason to approach water crossings with extra care, eh? Never know what stick or sizable rock might be under the surface ready to ambush your second CAT causing it to need replacing, hmm?
    Yes, that's almost certainly contributing, specially considering the location the noise appears to emanate from. During the day it's not hugely noticable. At night, with MUCH less background noise, driving with aircon off and passenger side windows down a touch instead, it gets a bit intrusive

    I've worked out what the noise was that alarmed me - this should make you laugh - it's the turbo and wastegate opening and closing. And sometimes it closes and stays closed at low speeds when you don't have your foot under it and then you suddenly get quite an unexpected racket from it. Which is what stopped me from getting under it straight away - an unexpectedly loud noise at an unexpected moment.

    Worked it out last night listening carefully as it approaches boost and it starts the noise on/off on/off and then all-on as it crosses the boost threshold. It's audible at lower MAP, just not nearly as much. Then it clicked and I thought "Ya dill - that's the wastegate."
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    Open it up, I did
    But of course
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    All is good, go for it, log till you can't log no more.
    Seeing some nice torque increases. Fairly broad and flat with gains just about everywhere, except possibly all the action has moved up in the rev range maybe 500rpm (at most?). I think initially the boost builds much faster than stock manifold, then levels out and approaches peak boost just a touch slower. At a guess - the first 75% boost is almost without any lag at all, while the final 25% builds a touch slower - possibly. That's the bum dyno's opinion anyway. That responsiveness getting on boost is what gives the feeling of more linear throttle control - and responsiveness was what I was hoping to see...

    I have a couple of logs from the trip down to brisney, and days prior to install, so hopefully I can find a sample piece of log to compare.
    It's obviously got a good deal more at the top end over 5500rpm; enough to push habitual shift points up 500rpm or so...
    Last edited by Nexus; 25-01-2011 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Editing / typos
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  7. #7
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    Lol @ Log...

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    The ceramic coat having a few degree knock on effect with BAT, I think - with the stock mani if you stopped and checked the TMIC, it would be on the hot side of warm at the back, and cool at the front. When I checked with new mani the back is on the cool side of warm, quite noticable so that's got to improve the TMIC efficiency significantly...

  9. #9

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    Now delete the "Pending Install" from your sig

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    Now delete the "Pending Install" from your sig
    Done.

    ---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    log till you can't log no more.
    Already there.
    Response is outstripping the bluetooth OBD connection speed - Need to hardwire now, that should be somewhat faster....
    And then main dashboard is overloaded with data, so Need minimal dash sets to log from...read less data means = bandwidth to sample faster...
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    The ceramic coat having a few degree knock on effect with BAT, I think - with the stock mani if you stopped and checked the TMIC, it would be on the hot side of warm at the back, and cool at the front. When I checked with new mani the back is on the cool side of warm, quite noticable so that's got to improve the TMIC efficiency significantly...
    Not as effective in stop/start - still takes longer to heat soak, I think, however some heat shielding could probably improve things in hot weather stop/start, and there's good clearance to fit it in.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  12. #12
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    Default Quiet again.

    I kept taking it easy because I wasn't completely reassured. We were aware of a clearance issue, and when Troy handed it back it didn't seem to be an immediate issue, or we had put a noise down to suspension that was actually a fitment issue.

    Anyway, I imagine it would be a common requirement with manifolds to relocate other lines nearby as much less clearance with bigger manifold.

    So....after the noise seem to escalate a little I took it real easy and had everything double checked today and a too-close-for-comfort line rerouted appropriately.

    In addition engine mounts etc etc all checked for tightness and noise etc....and NOW I can start getting it under it with some better feedback.

    Noise concerns totally resolved by service. Ignore everything I previously said about noise because it was an install glitch. Heat cycling of parts troy had adjusted saw them move back a little. Underside heat-shielding is necessary to stop the floor heating up on long trips, manifold heatshielding seems to be nearly completely redundant; lower under bonnet temps overall have the ETS TMIC really enjoying itself - it seems to recover from heatsoak quickly, and in fact I can't honestly say it's really shown heatsoak symptoms (slack response, retarded timing) in driving since the manifold install.

    It's quiet - manifold + racepipe combo on otherwise stock exhaust. It has more of a note than previously, however despite the racepipe I'm not sure it's much louder. Not harsh in any way. Although there's more of a tone than previous, I wouldn't suggest that it drones on cruise. Sounds good at idle and low speeds.

    Still haven't really opened it up to log performance peaks etc., however
    second gear is much more linear and seems to be devoid of appreciable lag.
    third gear now has response similar to second gear before the install - third is now more tractable, with just a moment of lag and the kind of shove that second gear exhibited previously. It makes third gear more usable with lower end gains having me leave it in third more often in circumstances I might previously have shifted down.
    fourth - as with second, linear response improved. Rocketship gear.

    I'll get some figures in due course. I'm hoping to see greater than 190Kw 400Nm atw with OEM airbox and (mostly) OEM exhaust. Last measurement was a little wack and underestimated @ 180Kw, having previously seen a good 175.

    Definately responsiveness is .
    Final drivetrain mods are likely to be no more than K+N oiled filter and an OEM airbox mod.

    Could a modded and tuned mps exceed 200Kw atw without a CAI/SRI, aftermarket DP or exhaust? Hopefully the answer is YES!

    ---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

    AND SMOOOTH. So smooth....
    Last edited by Nexus; 01-02-2011 at 10:47 PM.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  13. #13

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    Good to hear.

    I'll have another manifold fitted very soon, but, to a slightly more modded MPS, still untuned though. (2XS SRI, TIP, FMIC, manifold, Twin DP, Full system) Lastly a tune.

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    Any hints on which MPS this might be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski82 View Post
    Any hints on which MPS this might be?
    I know
    PS. Not mine

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    First peak result :
    I think overstated, might have been a slight downhill incline: Up from 180Kw / 290Nm (yes torque understated)
    222Kw / 350Nm
    Having said that, not as a significant incline as I would usually expect to skew calculations...
    But I don't think it's putting 222Kw to the ground. Maybe 200 though. We'll see after some more runs.
    Pretty comprehensive gains, though. Freaking awesome.

    With the understated torque, 280 = approx 380Nm actual I suspect. Still hunting bug.
    Which would make 350 = 475Nm. I don't think that's right either, although my mod set I was expecting responsiveness and torque over peak Kw.

    FUEL ECONOMY : On the 950Km trip from Toowoomba to bathurst I watched my calculated long-term average fuel consumption drop from 9.1l/100Km to 8.3l/100Km
    580Km still with > 1/8th of a tank indicated - specifically 575Km from 47l = 8.2l/100Km (can't find receipt now, but between 45 and 47 l)

    Now to get those numbers closer to reality...
    Last edited by Nexus; 04-02-2011 at 03:57 PM.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  17. #17

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    any chance of engine bay pics? Im surprised u went a manifold first before dump or am I missing something from your sig?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by lup15 View Post
    any chance of engine bay pics? Im surprised u went a manifold first before dump or am I missing something from your sig?
    You can't see anything from inside the engine bay. It's covered with a larger TMIC.

    No DP on here either. Stock DP and airbox. Reasons? Unknown.......................

    Achievements
    2009 Jamboree Street Compact Winner
    Aust. Quickest and Fastest MPS
    12.3 seconds @ 111Mph.
    Proven over the Qtr mile

    Another Mazda 3 MPS - Almost fully bolted - Waiting for a turbo upgrade - The weekend hack.
    Toyota Yaris - Coilovers, rollcage, raceseats, harnesses, 18s - Also waiting for a turbo upgrade.
    2011 AWD Territory - White and Slightly lowered on 22s - The tow car.
    2011 RWD Territory - Black on black and slammed on 22s - The family transporter.

  19. #19
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    That looks kinda real nice troy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhead View Post
    That looks kinda real nice troy.
    Quoting TAS Performance "That's a pretty smick manifold..."

    ---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lup15 View Post
    any chance of engine bay pics? Im surprised u went a manifold first before dump or am I missing something from your sig?
    Yeah, I am doing the mods backwards to how most people would approach it.
    Reasons for this are curiosity and theoretically with OEM airbox and DP restrictions in place but big TMIC, inlet and manifold it should end up with a highly responsive, beefy torque curve that doesn't experience big boost spikes...(ETS IC known for) which seems to be born out by what I've observed. The ECU will have an easier time keeping a lid on certain perameters etc, etc.

    Longevity is a consideration. It's a workhorse.

    Very smooth, very responsive, quiet like a sleeper, goes hard - if I find it dyno's to targets of 200Kw 425Nm atw then I'll be very happy; from here...maybe a DP, and maybe an OEM airbox mod, a K+N filter...I know I said "final = OEM airbox mod +filter", but I'll probably end up making a lie of that. I almost certainly will modify rather than replace the airbox, and it probably will get a DP at some point in the future...

    I'll get some pics of the engine bay in due course...
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

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