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Thread: Help! Tyre Scrubbing on Guard

  1. #1
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    Default Help! Tyre Scrubbing on Guard

    have a bit of a curly one thats slightly doing my head in here. Let me lay it out for you:

    06 MPS3
    Mazdaspeed3 Lowering Springs (not the camber kit as well)
    Koni Yellow Struts
    Series 1 RX8 Rims (the 5 spoke ones)
    Yokohama Advan AD08 tyres in 235/40/R18
    Rear Guards rolled by nelson from Sydney Guard rolling

    Now for the weird part, the passenger side rear tyre scrubs when going over speed humps, and minor bumps in the road *when theres somebody in the passenger seat*. Also scrubs if there weight in the boot etc.

    The Drivers side *does not scrub* at all. ?

    Bear in mind, the rest of the suspension setup is stock (sway bars etc)

    It's hard to tell exactly where on the wheel arch is scrubbing, I might have to load a couple hunder kg's into the boot and have somebody watch while I drive slowly over a speed hump and hope we can see exactly what up.

    Otherwise I'll be after a solution to give me more -ve camber on the rear. IIRC correctly the rear camber is not adjustable with the stock camber links?

    Any and all ideas appreciated guys.

  2. #2
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    My suspension is std and i run 18 x 8 with +46 offset with 235/40/18 my lips haven't been touched and I get the same thing on the passenger rear slight rubbing on extreme load in cornering and weight... But in saying that if I rolled my lips I suppose the scrubbing should be removed for me.... The RX8 rims are +50 offset if I'm correct, you wonder if the rear track has a different offset to left and right ???? question that needs to be looked into......

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240MPS View Post
    My suspension is std and i run 18 x 8 with +46 offset with 235/40/18 my lips haven't been touched and I get the same thing on the passenger rear slight rubbing on extreme load in cornering and weight... But in saying that if I rolled my lips I suppose the scrubbing should be removed for me.... The RX8 rims are +50 offset if I'm correct, you wonder if the rear track has a different offset to left and right ???? question that needs to be looked into......
    Hmmm I hadnt considered that the track could be different from left to right... Surely it wouldnt be?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaredycrow View Post
    Hmmm I hadnt considered that the track could be different from left to right... Surely it wouldnt be?
    It's been known to happen over the years I had it on my SLR 5000 and I know it's a different setup to front wheel drives and I've had some friends with the same issue over the years... So yeh it would be interesting to find out........ It was only a suggestion that come to mind...

  5. #5
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    Mine rubs on the L/H rear as well only on exteme dips or speed humps with rear passengers , running 245 x35 x 18 with 48 offset gaurds rolled & car is lowered with coil-overs also running Cobb sway bars rubbing is so minimal I don't worry about it .


    Col
    Last edited by YOU LOSE; 24-11-2010 at 11:56 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOU LOSE View Post
    Mine rubs on the L/H rear as well only on exteme dips or speed humps with rear passengers , running 245 x35 x 18 with 48 offset gaurds rolled & car is lowered with coil-overs also running Cobb sway bars rubbing is so minimal I don't worry about it .


    Col
    Thanks Col. I cant imagine how your getting away with 245's when my 235's are rubbing... Different offset though I suppose.

    To clarify, I'm really not talking about extreme loading here at all. 2 people in the car, one of them being me the driver, and the tyre *will* scrub on right had turns (loading up the left hand side of the car). To be fair I dont drive like a nana, but its certainly not extreme loading.

    I'm going to get some time in the workshop hopefully this weekend, and do a good wheel alignment and TOE adjustment as well. Hoping that, combined with the rolled guards will solve my problem. Otherwise its back to the stock wheels till I sort out a camber adjustment for the rear.

  7. #7

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    My guess would be that they have different camber setting from left to right???? Perhaps not by much but just enough to make it rub.

    I have also read on many forums from the states that the main area in which the rear rubs is where the rear bumper meets the rear fender, even if your lips ave been rolled it will still rub on there even with 18x8.5 wheels in a moderate offset.

    You need to see if it is rubbing on the inside or outside of the tyre, if is on the outside then a camber kit would be great idea as you may need to dial in a slight amount of Neg camber to pull away from the wheel arch. I think also lowering may change the Toe angle of the rears, I know this is a main issue with IRS equipped RWD cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malicioso View Post
    My guess would be that they have different camber setting from left to right???? Perhaps not by much but just enough to make it rub.

    I have also read on many forums from the states that the main area in which the rear rubs is where the rear bumper meets the rear fender, even if your lips ave been rolled it will still rub on there even with 18x8.5 wheels in a moderate offset.

    You need to see if it is rubbing on the inside or outside of the tyre, if is on the outside then a camber kit would be great idea as you may need to dial in a slight amount of Neg camber to pull away from the wheel arch. I think also lowering may change the Toe angle of the rears, I know this is a main issue with IRS equipped RWD cars.
    Its definitely rubbing on the outside and not the inside. (I can see the scub marks).

  9. #9
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    I'd check the distance between the wheel and guard on both sides before anything.
    It's not uncommon for any car to be out of square. It's probably more common than a car actually being perfectly square.
    If your guards are rolled the same amount?
    Ride height the same both sides?
    Wheel alignment would be my next thing to look at.
    Then after that, possibly bushes.

  10. #10

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    That said is there any companies like SuperPro, Noltec or Nolathane that make bushes for the MPS 3???

    or i guess they would be the same as a regular Mazda 3???

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malicioso View Post
    the main area in which the rear rubs is where the rear bumper meets the rear fender, even if your lips ave been rolled it will still rub on there even with 18x8.5 wheels in a moderate offset.
    This is true. KU-36, 225/45R18 on 18x7.5+48 in some cases will scrub on the plastic mudpiece thing.
    I had two sets, same tyres - first set did not rub, second rubbed. I suspect camber adjustment at alignment was the difference between the two fitments.

    I would place a small bet that if you can't find a rub anywhere else, it's the plastic mudgaurd piece on the rear side of the arch attached to the bumber etc. If you look closely you will see that it protrudes inwards just a little bit. If that's your culprit, shave away some superfluous plastic.

    This point of contact I suspect is more prone the larger your tyre circumference. so 225/40R18+48 not likely to see it. 225/45R18+48 do. Sometimes. 1/3 tyre sets in fact.

    On 235/40R18+50 (on RX-8 rims), you should have more clearance than Rino. 4mm more clearance to be precise. So anything your rubbing on will be rubbing worse on Rino's.

    If at 225/45R18+48 I can see rubbing, then I would expect that 235/40R18+48 the guards must be rolled well back. What I mean there is with 225/45 I have to push the gaurds back a little to ensure no rub and also trim plastic piece. With 235/40, I would have to push the gaurds back the same amount, plus 5mm, and maybe or maybe not shave plastic.

    Assuming everyone wears 225/45 :
    I'm a +48 offset - Rino needs 2mm more gaurd clearance than mine, being +46, and Scaredycrow's +50 needs 2mm less clearance than mine.
    When Scardydrow fits 235/40, he then needs 3mm more clearance than me - accounting for tyre width.

    Just trying to help y'all understand the clearance and offset relationship.

    I would suggest :
    (a) Check plastic mudpiece.
    (b) Don't just look up at the top of the arch, check the full arch. Contact can occur to the side, generally rearward. Quite a surprisingly long way back on the arch, actually.
    (c) Alignment appears to be a factor if it's a tight fit
    (d) Tyre choice can also be the difference between a rub and not (square sidewalls etc.)
    Last edited by Nexus; 24-11-2010 at 07:58 PM.
    "Blue Meanie" 2007 Aurora Blue MPS 3 - 18x8.5+44 SSR GTX01 - 235/40R18 Michelin PS5 - 3.5" ETS TMIC - CPE stg 2 mount - HKS/CPE BPV - 2XS inlet - 2XS short shift - Corksport turbo manifold - HT 98 octane tune - Leather/Aluminium handbrake - Momo shifty knob - 7" touchscreen - JDM Mazda Retractable dashtop screen assembly - Bespoke Raspberry Pi Android based GPS/Carplay and instrumentation - 36AH reserve battery and C-TEK isolator - TEIN Street Advanced coilovers 1" drop - Superpro bushings - 220Kw/410Nm.

    "Lipstick" 2013 Velocity Red MPS 3 - 18x7.5+48 Enkei RPF1 -225/40R18 Federal RS-RR - CPE TMIC - COBB inlet - CPE stg 2 mount - COBB Stage 1 98 octane tune - COBB shifty knob - 2XS short shift - 2XS turbo manifold.

  12. #12
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    Hmm this is a head ache, as i had the same set up BUT no scrap at all. only when i adjusted the camber it rubbed, only with a car full and cornering hard! when my car did scrub it was the plasic guard and slightest bit on the lip

  13. #13
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    1 other thing to consider is that when comparing who is using what size and what rubs and what doesn't is the actual brand of tyre, not the size.
    You will find that the side wall shape will vary between manufacturers.

    Tyre guy here once told me that he had to change a tyre on a truck. Fitted the exact same tyre, same brand, same size, same tread pattern yet there was nearly one inch difference in height.
    Upon closer inspection, the two tyres were made in different countries.
    He looked at all those tyres he had in stock and found they were different heights depending on where they were made.
    Point is, be careful when comparing.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexus View Post
    This is true. KU-36, 225/45R18 on 18x7.5+48 in some cases will scrub on the plastic mudpiece thing.
    I had two sets, same tyres - first set did not rub, second rubbed. I suspect camber adjustment at alignment was the difference between the two fitments.

    I would place a small bet that if you can't find a rub anywhere else, it's the plastic mudgaurd piece on the rear side of the arch attached to the bumber etc. If you look closely you will see that it protrudes inwards just a little bit. If that's your culprit, shave away some superfluous plastic.

    This point of contact I suspect is more prone the larger your tyre circumference. so 225/40R18+48 not likely to see it. 225/45R18+48 do. Sometimes. 1/3 tyre sets in fact.

    On 235/40R18+50 (on RX-8 rims), you should have more clearance than Rino. 4mm more clearance to be precise. So anything your rubbing on will be rubbing worse on Rino's.

    If at 225/45R18+48 I can see rubbing, then I would expect that 235/40R18+48 the guards must be rolled well back. What I mean there is with 225/45 I have to push the gaurds back a little to ensure no rub and also trim plastic piece. With 235/40, I would have to push the gaurds back the same amount, plus 5mm, and maybe or maybe not shave plastic.

    Assuming everyone wears 225/45 :
    I'm a +48 offset - Rino needs 2mm more gaurd clearance than mine, being +46, and Scaredycrow's +50 needs 2mm less clearance than mine.
    When Scardydrow fits 235/40, he then needs 3mm more clearance than me - accounting for tyre width.

    Just trying to help y'all understand the clearance and offset relationship.

    I would suggest :
    (a) Check plastic mudpiece.
    (b) Don't just look up at the top of the arch, check the full arch. Contact can occur to the side, generally rearward. Quite a surprisingly long way back on the arch, actually.
    (c) Alignment appears to be a factor if it's a tight fit
    (d) Tyre choice can also be the difference between a rub and not (square sidewalls etc.)
    Your exactly right. It IS scrubbing further back in the guard on the plastic bit. Before rolling the guards, it was scrubbing higher in the arch as well. Also Tyre choice HAS been the difference in this case. The old tryes were the same size, never had a problem. The AD08's have a very square sidewall which is the "cause" of this issue

    Quote Originally Posted by luke 3mps View Post
    Hmm this is a head ache, as i had the same set up BUT no scrap at all. only when i adjusted the camber it rubbed, only with a car full and cornering hard! when my car did scrub it was the plasic guard and slightest bit on the lip
    That's exactly why I didn't think I would have this problem, but alas I've got it anyway. Doing a full alignment and camber adjustment on Saturday, followed up by some trimming of the plastic on the back of the guard with a dremmel.

    Quote Originally Posted by bd581 View Post
    1 other thing to consider is that when comparing who is using what size and what rubs and what doesn't is the actual brand of tyre, not the size.
    You will find that the side wall shape will vary between manufacturers.

    Tyre guy here once told me that he had to change a tyre on a truck. Fitted the exact same tyre, same brand, same size, same tread pattern yet there was nearly one inch difference in height.
    Upon closer inspection, the two tyres were made in different countries.
    He looked at all those tyres he had in stock and found they were different heights depending on where they were made.
    Point is, be careful when comparing.
    A whole inch height difference is pretty impressive, surely that would be considered a manufacturing defect? Mine definitely do not have that problem

  15. #15

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    Great info on here, so much WIN!!!

    Anyways IMO best purchase to alleviate this problem regardless on the brand, model tyre is this SPC Camber Arm: MS3, Mazda 3

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malicioso View Post
    Great info on here, so much WIN!!!

    Anyways IMO best purchase to alleviate this problem regardless on the brand, model tyre is this SPC Camber Arm: MS3, Mazda 3
    Quite possibly. But I'm waiting to see what the camber is currently. Because if its <-1.5 degrees, those arms will make it worse

    And yeah +1 to the info in this thread. The inteligence present on this forum is far above what I would expect from a relatively small group. and it is MUCH appreciated.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaredycrow View Post
    Thanks Col. I cant imagine how your getting away with 245's when my 235's are rubbing... Different offset though I suppose.

    To clarify, I'm really not talking about extreme loading here at all. 2 people in the car, one of them being me the driver, and the tyre *will* scrub on right had turns (loading up the left hand side of the car). To be fair I dont drive like a nana, but its certainly not extreme loading.

    I'm going to get some time in the workshop hopefully this weekend, and do a good wheel alignment and TOE adjustment as well. Hoping that, combined with the rolled guards will solve my problem. Otherwise its back to the stock wheels till I sort out a camber adjustment for the rear.
    Thinking back mine was exactly what u describe till I had the rear gaurds pumped & rolled so hopefully rolled gaurds will do it for u It would only be mere millimetres mate

    Col
    Last edited by YOU LOSE; 27-11-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Jon (Grajy) was getting scrubbing primarily on the rear LHS of his car too when the Koni Coil Overs went in.

    Hence the youtubed roadside guard-rolling vid on the Reefton run.

  19. #19
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    Problem solved

    Got the car into the workshop on the weekend found the following:

    - Alignment was fine
    - Toe was fine
    - Camber was... interesting. Had -3 degrees camber on the RHS and just under -2 on the LHS (side that rubbed). Note here: Pretty much all the camber adjustment kits for our cars I found gave you a max of -1.5 degrees. As such, they would NOT have solved my problem.

    So we slapped some whhit marker on a the edge of the tyre where the rubbing was occuring and went over a few speed humps. Once back to the workshop it was easy to tell where the rubbing was happening. The rubbing was occuring along the black plastic piece at the back edge of the wheel arch. Importantly, this part cannot be "rolled". So out came a shark knife to cut away the plastic, followed up by a file to take a few mm off the metal under the plastic. Slapped some paint on the bared metal and went for a test run. No scrubbing

    Thanks to everyone who contributed here. Glad thats over

  20. #20

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    Good to hear you got it solved mate

    I have read on many forums on the US that the culprit usually is that black plastic part, most take it off but IMO looks neat having it on.

    I've found that to be a bit weird when looking up places like StreetUnit, NextMod & ProtogeGarage. They all say 1.5 deg camber but a lot of ppl fit these and achieve -3 degs camber????

    Perhaps the camber arms are different length and the adjustment on them give you up to 1.5???

    BTW what specs are your wheels???

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