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If you're interested in 245's on the rear, I know Col (You Lose) is running 245/35 on 18x8 with 48 offset.Originally Posted by Igor
It totally changes the look of the car from the rear. It looks real fat and loses the tall, slim wheel look of the Gen 1 MPS. His guards are pulled & rolled but then his car is riding veeeeery low.
I'm running BC Coilovers, about to fit 18x8 RX8 rims, and plan to be low over 245's on the rear.
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I'm sorry, but changing the offset on the GForce definately changes the spokes shape. Because the spokes still come out to the lip from the wheel center. Same as an Advan RZ. You only need to see an STI with an Advan +35 vs a +48 or something to see that it changes the face. Obviously not all wheels do this. I know some of the guys overseas with the Advan even specify for an EVO face because it has a better shape to it. But once again, it's personal taste.
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I'm sorry too it may work with Advan but have a look at Rota wheel catalogue. Also talk to Col (You Lose) he has as in earlier post 245 tyres with a +48 offset and still has problems. The look is "in the eye of the beholder" fit the wheels and put a big sign up the side of your car "look at me, my wheels are illegal & dangerous"
http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/membe...6-mps-3-a.html this is my car running Rota G force 18x8.5 +48 235/40/18
---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------
When u change your wheel u will change how the car handles! When u change ur camber it changes it big time.. If you have not done already? read up on how these things change the way the car handles, Dont go and spend money on something u might regret later!!
Many want Power not many hold it long.........
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Whiteminx's Mazda - Boostcruising
Check that link out then tell me they have the same looking face RD415.
So love it, hate it, say it's a cop magnet, won't handle, whatever. It looks pretty tuff to me.
And the car has run a 12.9. We do what we want depending on what we intend to use the car for.
Yes it might not make it a great car for circuit racing. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who loves the look of this car.
When you post on here asking for advice we give it... Increasing the camber on the rear like that will increase understeer no matter what u do to the suppension! tyre wear will also increase. turn in will also be affected on the front, when changing the camber to - will give later turn in. This will help with understeer when cornering hard, torque steer will increase... Tuff not for me i want my car to handle
Most of what has been said can be engineered, If u want the look go for it. Cuz i love the look of this... but i wanted to give the camber more + on the rear for more oversteer this helps with understeer on the front.. this is why i will keep what i have now
Last edited by RedDjinn; 09-11-2010 at 08:03 PM.
Many want Power not many hold it long.........
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So cton you would rather have a car that looks good (in your opinion) than a car that handles well, is good to drive, legal and above all, safe?
Well as you say, each to their own
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No your right I wouldn't, I would like in between the 2 really.
There's no way I would actually add rear camber, I couldn't afford the tires!
But the OP here actually mentioned he wanted a +30 in an earlier post. I actually said that's too much.
The legality doesn't phase me too much though. Most of us run unenclosed sri's and DPs that are technically for off road use only. I personally would not go as far as Whiteminx's car. But what I originally said is that the spokes of these wheels look alot better with more offset because it changes the face of the wheel. Which was then debated.
Has not been mentioned yet( i think?) unsprung weight.. when u put the rim so far out away from the hub u increase unsprung weight, when u hit a bump the wheel travels firther away from the contact patch (road) in turn less grip
Any ways that my rant over
Forum Freak
+30 is too much. Stick to a low to high 40. IMO, 245's are overkill. Looks tough, but is expensive (for me anyway...) I've got 235's, and 'I' think it looks aces. I think my offset is +46... I think.
Traitor
Sort of has been, the wheel pushed out that far adds weight (as you mention) which puts extra load on wheel bearings, cv joints, and wheel studs.Has not been mentioned yet( i think?) unsprung weight.. when u put the rim so far out away from the hub u increase unsprung weight, when u hit a bump the wheel travels firther away from the contact patch (road) in turn less grip
Any ways that my rant over
So besides the legalities and effect on handling, it's potentially very dangerous (hence the legality issues)
Believe it or not, but rules are put into place for a reason.
Even with my 18x8 +45 offset I think it fills the guards quite nicely, and other mps owners have made the same comment.
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You need to look around for the wheel/tyre calculator and determine what may fit.
18x9 +30 has been done many times, heck even 18x8.5 +25 and 18x9.5 +30 has been done and even as much as 18x10 in the US...
e.i. this car...
Note: it is purely for looks, would be a really impractical car to drive and the owner has never had an issue with wheel studs, bearings etc etc looks tough as but I wouldn't recommend it on bit...
btw G-forces don't come in +35 the best I have seen for flushness and neatness is 18x8.5 +48 and 225/45s, these tyres will also work with the 18x9s mentioned size.
Here is a pic...
^^^ now tell me how does that look like too much poke or unsafe??? To me it looks real neat!!!
I personally think a setup like above will still be functional enough to still make the car handle quite well, it also depends what you intend to use the car for, if it is for track and sprints then forget this setup and rum some forged alloys in 18x8 with a girly offset and call it a day, if it a street car and you don't mind a bit of compromise then meh up to you.
I find it funny how some ppl here go on and on about how unsafe deep offsets are, look at all the drifters they run about 2-3 inches worth of offset as to what the car came out with and they never spit out any broken studs or melted bearings... As to handling I used to own an Integra (FWD) with really wide wheels and sitting very low, had about 2.5 deg camber on the front and about the same on the rear and that handled like it was on rails!!! Didn't even have coilovers!!!!
I personally will be going 18x9.5 with 235/40s with an offset I do not want to disclose to ppl it wont be as low as +30 but good enough to make the wheels fit real nicely, do need coilovers first and some rear camber arms + rolled guards and some trimming of the inner guard plastic covers...
If stance is your thing and don't drive the car enough to gain much attention then go for it, I'm all for stance and the way a car looks without being over the top, at the end of the day it is your car and if you're willing to risk fitting low offset wheels with plenty of poke thats up to you really....
Just do your homework like I have and spend some time working out how things will fit, and if you can live with the car being low and fat, also i recommend looking into coilovers first coz there is no chance you would be able to fit such wide wheels without gaining some clearance from the shock bodies...
Alex
Last edited by Malicioso; 10-11-2010 at 10:17 AM. Reason: attached images
Baton Relay Coordinator
Quote = "You need to look around for the wheel/tyre calculator and determine what may fit."
Already posted
Quote = "Has not been mentioned yet( i think?) unsprung weight.."
Already mentioned
Of course it is the owners choice to pick the wheels and the look he/she wants. But the advice is to stick with the correct offset for both mechanical reasons (unsprung weight/tyre wear/load on bearings & CV joints/general handling capabilities etc) and for legal reasons. The pictures by Cton don't compare a +30 offset to a +48 offset my Gforce spokes look similar to the +30 offset and are in fact +48 offset.
There is a problem with the spokes sticking out further than the tyre and that is gutter rashes on the spokes, the flat Buddy club wheels in my opinion look so much better, but that's my taste.
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Ok I must have missed that...
I'd love to see a car that has had a failure from the above mentioned low offset! +12 or +20 is low offset heck -15 is super low, my Datsun had 15x8 with 0 offset and never had an issue, that is a car that came out with something around the +25 offset region so effectively that was roughly an Inch and wheels would have been 3" wider than stock...
Been even told that having the Zero offset was optimal for sprint racing, by a reputable Datsun specialist who has over 35yrs experience...
Yes newer cars may be different, but I think some ppl on here take this on too seriously...
IMO for a nice balanced street MPS 18x8.5 with between +35 to +44 offset would be about spot on mated with some 225/45s and you're done!
The link that Igor posted to the Wheeldude photo is exactly that and I'm sure he would never run into any problems with such setup.
I've been playing with wheel offsets and widths for some time now, I had 3 different sets of rims on my Integra, and about 6 different sets on the Datsun, bit of a wheel whore really....
---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------
Here is another 3 done right.
Rota SVNs in 18x8.5 +48 with 235/40s all round.
I've even contemplated setting mine up like this...
IMO perfect!
Last edited by Malicioso; 10-11-2010 at 09:26 AM.
Traitor
My pet hate. Taking race car theory and applying it to a road car. More often than not, it does not work.
True you may not see the mentioned faults on race cars, but how many of them do the amount of km that road cars do?
And they are generally far better maintained than road cars.
Race car style suspension and setups might be good on a track but those benefits don't transfer onto average Australian roads. And can be very dangerous in the wrong hands of the average driver.
Take a pencil, hold one end, grab the pencil with the other hand close next to where your holding and break the pencil. Very difficult.
Hold a pencil at each end and try to break it now. Easy.
That's the same as a wheel stud if you shift the weight of the wheel further out.
If looks are what you want, fine.
But I'll argue all day long that you'll have more trouble than it's worth going to such a low offset.
You might not have problems right away, but I personally wouldn't take the chance
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Funny I never mentioned a race car, this was more of a street car that I would have been able to take to the track...
I'm sure many on here enjoy a track club day or two, and I'm with ya on having such setup for the track, can you imagine that first white car on the track with it's low stance and deep dish??? That is why it's just for show and looks only. By the looks of it Igor is in it for the looks, that is why I mentioned that if you ever intend on hitting the track then go for something more suttle.
That being said, he should just go for this setup, call it a day and Thread Closed....
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/336356...tonville-ar-us
Oh btw Pencils are made of wood, wheel studs are made out of steel, geeze even I knew that one...
jks lol
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Seems to me that there is a lack of undestanding the reason there is wheel offset, there is quite a considerable appeal just for looks, which is so far wrong it's not funny.
Technically the offset is to place the load on the wheel on the larger inner wheel bearing, the out bearing is usually of lighter/smaller construction basically as a locator for the inner bearing. Doesn't as much apply to front wheel drive cars for the wheel front bearings as both bearings carry the loads. Although on front drive cars the rear wheel bearings are conventional and designed for the loads on the inner bearing. The centre line of the wheel is directly over the inner wheel bearing. (read any automotive text book on wheel bearings)
Malicioso I guess you don't get about much or have been in the trade, Ive seen plenty of broken studs (mostly but not all due to incorrect wheels fitted). Your picture is exactly what I am saying - Quote "Rota SVNs in 18x8.5 +48 with 235/40s all round." Close to correct offset and fill the guards nicely. I run 18x8 Rota Gforce with a +48 offset 235/40/18 and that fills the guards nicely.
Just by the way you DID mention Datsun sprint racing.
It IS the decision of the owner and we can only offer opinions and advice. After 30 years teaching Auto, and nearly as many years racing everything from speedway, rally and sports sedans I consider I have plenty of experience with suspension setups. I also spent three years employed as a wheel alignment specialist in my early years in the trade. So I guess I can say "been there - done that".
On a final note may I say "Opinions are like arseholes - everybody has got one"
PS. The load is not only the weight of the wheel, but it is the weight of the car and the angular thrust as well as the torque.
Forum Freak
Amen, Russ.
Looks are just that. Performance is different. Work out what you want and choose accordingly. Remember, you can't have both at the same time.
My wheels are for performance. I keep them clean and rash free. I don't care about the looks...
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Funny that making an assumption since one comes across as a newbie, well let me tell you that I have been a mechanic for a period of 3yrs in the past, which then turned out not to be for me, thought I could make more money by doing something else which I did by studying Mech Eng at RMIT Melb and landed a nice job as a piping and equipment designer. I also owned and modified plenty of cars to know more than a thing or two about them, have pulled engines apart, rebuilt them and modified them, have been playing with wheel widths and offsets since I bought my first car and I've also tracked them and was building my last Datsun as something I could drive to club meets and car shows. So i think I'm quite knowledgeable when it comes to cars.
So my friend next time you're to make an assumption, remember that ASSUME makes and ass out of you and most of all ME!
Hope we can leave it at that since I'm not down with keyboard wars on a public forum....
Anyways that is what I was getting to with regards to personal CHOICE, depends what he would like his car to be for looks or performance.
Heck he can stick to his OEM cheese cutters for all I care...
I was also giving my opinion on what fits, many have pushed the boundary as to what fits and makes a flush fitment i.e. just for show, which I doubt many on here would understand anything about since low or neg offset causes the end of the world as we know it.
Remember we're talking mm here, so if you were to go from a 7.5 (oem rim) to a 8.5 that in total is 1" wider than stock (wow big deal), drop the offset from +52 (oem wheels) to something like +45 and that is barely 7mm!!!
To me anything between 18x8.5 +35 up to +48 would make an ideal setup, for both looks and without compromising performance on a car that can be driven daily, you can still fit some 235s with a 40 series profile to keep the speedo in check and not have any premature bearing failure, Grajy's car is a nice example of it done right though I don't see why .5 of an inch would be such drama together with 5mm of less offset.
And yes it was a Datsun being built to hit the track, the reputable builder DatSport (look them up) gave me great help in setting the car up, Baz the owner of the shop has over 35yrs experience with these cars, and he suggested running as close to zero, though he id not agree with the 8" wide wheel because it would allow me to run wider rubber.
Alex
Last edited by Malicioso; 11-11-2010 at 11:03 AM.
Traitor
Seriously???
Mate 3 years hardly compares to 30years experience.
That's just stupid to compare.
I've had 10 years experience in the trade and the ONLY wheelstud problem I've seen are on either really old cars where they have rusted or on cars with aftermarket wheels
The problem is with most modifiers is that they don't see the long term effects on cars.
Just because something doesn't go wrong right away doesn't mean it's not going to.
I don't care what people may think. But things are done for a reason.
There is a reason why Mazda chose the offset they do, just like every car company.
And there is a reason why ADR made the rule that track width can't be increased by more than 25mm.
I think the comments were made by RD415 not to criticize but to inform and educate
By the way, drift cars were also mentioned. So that's 2 race car references. "funny that"
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