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View Poll Results: Would you purchase an AWD MPS3

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  • I'd purchase a MPS 3 with AWD at a $5,000 premium

    78 62.90%
  • I'd purchase a MPS 3 with AWD only if the price remained as they are

    25 20.16%
  • I like my MPS 3 with all the power going to the front!

    21 16.94%
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Thread: The ultimate MPS3 AWD discussion

  1. #61
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    Doug I presume you are refering to me in your post , I am not moaning about traction , I have virtually no wheel spin in my modded MPS my car puts the power to the ground very well , there are quite a few members who are witness to that fact . I have no problem in the wet either with good throttle control & yokahama S drive tyres coil-overs & swar bars I guarantee your mps 6 would not be leaving me behind wet or dry . I am not Silly or a dork & I know what Iam doing I have a well balanced car & I don't wan't awd , call me old fashioned but I Like the challenge of actually using my own skill in setting up & driving the car myself the legacy of nearly 40 years of racing I suppose .

    On that matter, moaning about an MPS3 being prone to wheel-spin in FWD when you've just increased the power from 190Kw by tweaking the engine is just silly, especially when the manufacturer has obviously been doing his damndest to control it, even in stock trim, with a torque limiting diff. You are plainly at the limits of design for that weight and balance configuration.

    For me wheelspin is not an optoin I have eliminated most of it I have a 3 MPS thats puts al the power to the ground !!!!!

    To me, any wheel-spin, regardless of front or back slip, doesn't say "wow, look how powerful my car is" but rather "look how little traction I have" or at worst "I'm a dork with no throttle finesse".





    Which is why I won't pay $65K+ for a Golf R

    I can afford a Golf R ,Evo or a WRX STi,nice cars but to clinical & computor controlled for me !!!! I love the challenge of a mps at 10/10th's and beating the above mentioned cars at there oun game on the twisties .

    ----------------------------------

    On this note:
    I was involved in a twin-engined Mini project back in the 70's. Two 1275cc Mini Cooper engines in a Mini. One in front, one in the back. Synchronized gearshift on two boxes. Went like hell. You could try that given the MPS3 setup. 400Kw. Almost 50:50 weight distribution. Worth a try for someone with a workshop and a gas torch![/QUOTE]


    Now theres a good idea , I have been involved in such projects myself as a driver , a nightmare to keep both motors synchronised & excesive tyre wear more of a novelty than anything else , but a good challenge for our budding modders .


    Col
    Last edited by YOU LOSE; 26-07-2010 at 06:01 PM.
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    Coming soon

  2. #62

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    Hi COL, no it wasn't directed at you. Nor at anyone who enjoys the challenge offered by a certain type of car and its characteristics. I guess I just find it amusing that some folks complain about wheel spin when it is entirely within their ability to control it. And more-so I suppose when they've bought a car with serious grunt going through the front end. The only thing worse would be having it going out the rear where there is no weight to chain it down!! A la V8 Holden utes.

    On that note: When Fangio took out the incredibly complex V16 BRM in the wet he was all over the place, mostly sideways, but came back smiling and happy and when asked "why did you go so fast straight away?" he replied "...well, that is the only way you can find out what happens!"

    SCAREDYCROW, yes I guess the entire thread is more likely to be in the realm of a dream. ;-)
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  3. #63
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    Like what doug had alluded to previously. There is much more to a car than just performance.

    Yes the MPS would have better traction as AWD. But there is more to it than that.

    Being realistic (and i have had an AWD car, and loved it, so no bias here) under real, legal, daily driving, there is little real advantage to AWD. Yes you get better traction in the rain blah blah blah, but you will need to be doing illegal things on the road before that becomes an advantage.
    Also, i don't know of anyone who launches their car from 0-100km/h as fast as possible everytime they take off. So again, no daily or legal need for such traction on public streets.

    However with AWD you WILL get less fuel economy (which matters to more consumers) and less boot space, again, something that matters to the majority of consumers.

    So yes, an AWD MPS would be better to drive, go better under spirited driving or on a track. But to the majority of consumers the benifit of FWD cars far outweigh the AWD benifits. Hence the amount of FWD cars in production worldwide.


    Another thing, from a panel beaters point of view. I have had so many customers who have crashed WRX's because they were overconfident because of having AWD and their perceptions of their cars ability (due to marketing usually and coments made based on the cars on track ability)
    And i remember the amount of HSV's repaired that had the optional big brake package, that all hit something, again, because of over confidence.

  4. #64
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    Well put.

    At the end of the day I bought an MPS after all things were considered. If 4wd was a huge deal for me I would have bought a WRX, sure 4wd would have been preferable but at the end of it all, the improved fit & polish and list of standard features (added to the fact the subaru has a bad stigma and is ugly as hell) meant the Mazda made much more sense to me.

    Based on my own criteria I ranked the contenders like this all things considered:
    1. MPS
    2. GTI
    3. WRX
    4. XR5
    5. Ralliart

    The only 2 that I would have been happy to buy were the Mazda and the Golf. Both FWD cars, and I drive to the snow frequently. I am one of the few people who actually have an honest to god benefit from having a 4WD car, and I still didn't get one.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOU LOSE View Post
    Ok Micheal I hear what your saying I will have to have a drive of baby godzilla & be converted but if a awd MPS3 was to come on the market it probably would be computer contolled & as such I would probably prefer the fun of driving MADAZ in the wet or dry If a awd MPS was a option wouldnt it be just another evo ,wrx clone ?????? '


    Col
    Well seems the only ay to escape the clone of the evo, wrx, sti is to forget mazda buy a Nissan We have 3 great older models that are all savage AWD GTiR, R32 GTR, R33 GTR. There is a fourth/fith back they are more computer controlled R34 GTR and R35 GTR. But both still savage and not computer limited like there other AWD buddies from Subaru, Mitsubishi etc

    Another solution track GTiR

    I shall be getting my 2nd GTiR 2wards the end of the year, cant wait for the little pig . . .

    One drive of LILZLR Col and I think you may almost be converted
    "THE PATH OF THE GTI-R IS BESET WITH PERIL BY THE INJUSTICES OF THE SPEED CAMERA AND THE TYRANNY OF OTHER DRIVERS. BLESSED IS HE WHO OVERTAKES THE EVO & STI THROUGH THE VALLEY OF HAIRPIN TURNS, FOR HE IS TRULY HIS CAR'S TUNER AND THE FINDER OF LOST HORSEPOWER. . . AND WE SHALT STRIKE DOWN WITH GREAT BOOST AND FURIOUS ACCELERATION ON WHOEVER DOTH ATTEMPT TO OBSTRUCT OR DELAY OUR OVERTAKING. . .
    BMW M3 Evo Coming to the R stable soon. . .

  6. #66
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    Hey Michael just a question here for you mateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, but doesn't a really fast FWD go really really well when you need them ... I've never seen a AWD walk to work or even a AWD bus or any transport as a matter of fact......

    Oh by the way leave the supercharged Commodores alone they may never what to come out and play with Col if you keep beaten them.

  7. Default

    In my honest opinion, Mazda would be better off leaving the MPS FWD, and incorporating all of what Ford did to make their RS brilliant. H3ll, if Ford can belt 300BHP thru the fronts, then Mazda can do it too. Mazda just need to get on the "smart" boat and do what Ford has to control the beast within. Mazda also needs to work on styling rather than drivetrain options, because this is whats going to sell cars for em.

    I also think Mazda have priced the MPS in a position that would be non-competitive against the likes of the Mitsubishi Rallyart and Subaru WRX if they were to add AWD to their kit. The MPS, WRX and RA are all around the same price point - and the MPS is the only FWD one, so Mazda must have a reason for it being up there. Ford, I think, have priced the XR5 in the right bracket. Mid 35's is where it should be for a FWD, and I think the MPS should around there too.

    Looking at it from another angle, if you ended up paying $48k before onroads for a lux AWD MPS, I'd rather buy a base model 3 door manual Golf R ($48,950) which has a proven AWD drivetrain, loads of fun factor, and an exhaust note to die for right out of the box - and not to mention, the R actually looks half decent.

    ---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by YOU LOSE View Post
    Doug I presume you are refering to me in your post , I am not moaning about traction , I have virtually no wheel spin in my modded MPS my car puts the power to the ground very well , there are quite a few members who are witness to that fact . I have no problem in the wet either with good throttle control & yokahama S drive tyres coil-overs & swar bars I guarantee your mps 6 would not be leaving me behind wet or dry . I am not Silly or a dork & I know what Iam doing I have a well balanced car & I don't wan't awd , call me old fashioned but I Like the challenge of actually using my own skill in setting up & driving the car myself the legacy of nearly 40 years of racing I suppose .

    On that matter, moaning about an MPS3 being prone to wheel-spin in FWD when you've just increased the power from 190Kw by tweaking the engine is just silly, especially when the manufacturer has obviously been doing his damndest to control it, even in stock trim, with a torque limiting diff. You are plainly at the limits of design for that weight and balance configuration.

    For me wheelspin is not an optoin I have eliminated most of it I have a 3 MPS thats puts al the power to the ground !!!!!

    To me, any wheel-spin, regardless of front or back slip, doesn't say "wow, look how powerful my car is" but rather "look how little traction I have" or at worst "I'm a dork with no throttle finesse".





    Which is why I won't pay $65K+ for a Golf R

    I can afford a Golf R ,Evo or a WRX STi,nice cars but to clinical & computor controlled for me !!!! I love the challenge of a mps at 10/10th's and beating the above mentioned cars at there oun game on the twisties .

    ----------------------------------

    On this note:
    I was involved in a twin-engined Mini project back in the 70's. Two 1275cc Mini Cooper engines in a Mini. One in front, one in the back. Synchronized gearshift on two boxes. Went like hell. You could try that given the MPS3 setup. 400Kw. Almost 50:50 weight distribution. Worth a try for someone with a workshop and a gas torch


    Now theres a good idea , I have been involved in such projects myself as a driver , a nightmare to keep both motors synchronised & excesive tyre wear more of a novelty than anything else , but a good challenge for our budding modders .


    Col
    I would like to make a few corrections to your rant tho. The "so called clinical" electronic controls that go into the base model R and STi are no where near as advanced as the Evo X. This was a major detractor for me on the Evo X (which I almost bought) because a 9 month old could take it around S bends & circumvent round-a-bouts blind folded sitting backwards in a baby capsule at 80-100km/hr with little or no effort - and whats the fun in that??. Its also obvious you've never driven an R or STi. Fcuk they're fun. If the R32 I've driven is anything to gauge the new R by, while being an NA even, it moves and shakes its booty even better than an STi - altho after having driven all 3 (STi, R32 and MPS), I still prefer to stay in my very snug STi recaros behind the wheel of my monster.

    Both STi and R run a fairly stock standard traction control system which merely delivers power to the wheels where needed - very similar to the MPS setup - but in AWD..... Where as the Evo X is fully sensor controlled measuring every nip n tuck, litterally every bump in the road, which is not only vastly different to the others, but also explains the additional cost over both STi and R. Of course, it would only take you a few minutes to view the Top Gear review from 2008 to see that for yourself (in the case of the STi vs Evo X that is) - the STi is way more fun, certainly 200% more raw (and quicker by a hair around the TG track too). Yes there is an add on for the R in the way of a $1500 handling kit, but this is merely a driver setting switch for 3 suspension settings which arranges an EDFC kit over the suspension. Now before you start jumping up and down about the STi's DCCD, this little feature is for power delivery only (50/50 or 60/40 or lock), and doesnt really do too much, except in 60/40 where the back steps out just a little bit more in the wet So, um, unless theres some real advanced ABS kit under dat bonnet that I didnt know about, aside from the Evo X, both R, MPS and STi are on pretty even ground when it comes to electronics.

    So... Col, I suggest you do some research before making budding comments on vehicles you clearly know nothing about. In my experience, slip sliding my STi around Northern NSW mountainous terrain with an R32 and MPS in tow - there are never any "clinical" controls going on there, and instead, a lot of expert driving in the twisties, and a whole lot of "wholy fcuk i just missed that cliff/tree/bike/car/truck/...etc" words goin on in the drivers seat - and its always friggin fun too

    ...... which kinda leads me to the point that it doesnt matter what car you drive, so long as you enjoy it
    Last edited by shakespeare; 01-08-2010 at 09:28 PM. Reason: Removed off topic content

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardski View Post
    In my honest opinion, Mazda would be better off leaving the MPS FWD, and incorporating all of what Ford did to make their RS brilliant. H3ll, if Ford can belt 300BHP thru the fronts, then Mazda can do it too. Mazda just need to get on the "smart" boat and do what Ford has to control the beast within. Mazda also needs to work on styling rather than drivetrain options, because this is whats going to sell cars for em.
    --- snip---
    ...... which kinda leads me to the point that it doesnt matter what car you drive, so long as you enjoy it
    i would kinda like the LSD ford put in the RS500... that puts out ~360 hp if memory serves correctly... and what makes the base car better can only make it a better proposition in the end... look at all the work you've had to do to your car col, if a heap of those handling tweaks didnt have to be done, whilst still maintaining the same feel, wouldnt that then make it a better car?
    Last edited by shakespeare; 01-08-2010 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Removed off topic content
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  9. #69
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    Let's ask this guy when he has finished his AWD 3 MPS project

    AWD Mazdaspeed 3

    I voted AWD for an extra $5000, if it was available in the 3 MPS as an option I'd have it.

  10. #70
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    I hope I don't need to remind anyone here that personal attacks will not be tolerated, so can we please leave the who's right/wrong, better/not better discussions out and go back to discussing the MPS 3 AWD original topic!

    I will leave the posts/comments up as a reminder of how silly this looks, however if there are any more comments of this nature then they will be dealt with appropriately

    Thank you
    Chris

    EDIT: After reading through this again I've decided to remove the irrelevant posts!
    Last edited by shakespeare; 01-08-2010 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Added message advising of thread cleaning

  11. #71
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    On Lilzlr's comments about the mechanical AWD system on the GTi-R.
    I have to say one of the most frighning experiences driving a car was when i threw a U-Turn in mine and confused the AWD. It wheelspun the rear, so shifted power to the front, then the fronts spun, then the rear, then the front, the result was me "crabbing"
    Was not fun at all.
    Dangerous even

  12. Default

    @ bd581, those damn GTi-R's are bl00dy awesome. Before I had the MPS modded, I had a poke at one of those in a straight line.. He was gone before I changed into 2nd gear... power to weight ratio in those is mad
    Last edited by shakespeare; 01-08-2010 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Removed off topic comments

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakespeare View Post
    I hope I don't need to remind anyone here that personal attacks will not be tolerated, so can we please leave the who's right/wrong, better/not better discussions out and go back to discussing the MPS 3 AWD original topic!

    I will leave the posts/comments up as a reminder of how silly this looks, however if there are any more comments of this nature then they will be dealt with appropriately

    Thank you
    Chris

    EDIT: After reading through this again I've decided to remove the irrelevant posts!
    Guys please don't add any more fuel to this hotly burning fire, to avoid me from removing all the off topic posts, can you please stop posting them
    Thanks
    R36 - Just like an MPS6 except with a growly V6

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardski View Post
    @ bd581, those damn GTi-R's are bl00dy awesome. Before I had the MPS modded, I had a poke at one of those in a straight line.. He was gone before I changed into 2nd gear... power to weight ratio in those is mad
    Wise words there Ward . .. When my R makes its way your way you shall have to see what a 250kw+ GTiR has to offer Much fun indeed. . Chasing thaT dam 300kw figure, insight it now is
    "THE PATH OF THE GTI-R IS BESET WITH PERIL BY THE INJUSTICES OF THE SPEED CAMERA AND THE TYRANNY OF OTHER DRIVERS. BLESSED IS HE WHO OVERTAKES THE EVO & STI THROUGH THE VALLEY OF HAIRPIN TURNS, FOR HE IS TRULY HIS CAR'S TUNER AND THE FINDER OF LOST HORSEPOWER. . . AND WE SHALT STRIKE DOWN WITH GREAT BOOST AND FURIOUS ACCELERATION ON WHOEVER DOTH ATTEMPT TO OBSTRUCT OR DELAY OUR OVERTAKING. . .
    BMW M3 Evo Coming to the R stable soon. . .

  15. Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by LILZLR View Post
    Wise words there Ward . .. When my R makes its way your way you shall have to see what a 250kw+ GTiR has to offer Much fun indeed. . Chasing thaT dam 300kw figure, insight it now is
    Nah, I'd be a fool to pit my 193kW, 500Nm boxer against a 250kW wrestler.. The GTi-R is renounded not for its quality, but for its blow ya away ability! A colleague of mine at Caltex has one, and its totally stock. He's had a full leather trim fit-out and and midnight black respray with fully tinted windows. He also just recently had the gearbox and diffs rebuilt (which he said he consistantly had issues with).

    Totally stock even, and its an animal! If he was to sell it, I'd be the first to take it of his hands


    On another note - did anyone see that the Focus RS is being imported in limited numbers (315) to Aus at the end of the year??

  16. #76

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    After thinking about it for a while. I think I like BMWs idea. Anything apart from FR is the work of the devil

    That being said, I would rather have a FR MPS with a weight dist of 50/50 and around 200kilos lighter..... Now theres my dream mps.

  17. #77
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    AWD or FWD i dont really think the mps as rwd would be good (as much as i love rwd). its too short, wrong lay out for rwd...

  18. #78

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    No such thing as too short for RWD. Look at the Suzuki Cappachino.....

  19. #79
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    At the risk of sounding unpopular... Maybe its time to close this thread? Got our poll results etc.

    We can start another therad on FWD v AWD v RWD elsewhere... its off topic for this thread.

  20. #80

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    Irrespective of price, 49 people prefered AWD to 17 who prefered FWD. That's more than 2:1 in favour of AWD. I'd really like this information to make its way to the very top of Mazda.

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