The ultimate MPS3 AWD discussion

[LILZLR]

Sorry boys and girls, but after having a MPS3 Gen1 with decent power in my possession over the last week, AWD is definately needed sure it would take away some of the handful pigish style it has but, TRACTION is your friend. Not all AWD is bad. . . The Evo's, WRX & STi's are the worst to think of when you think about AWD as they are all computer controlled.

Bare in mind that my normal daily is a Nissan GTiR (AWD turbo) (Baby Godzilla), now my AWD does not have 1 ounce of computer help. . Mechanical AWD baby the only way.

Cause understeer is fun dont get me wrong, But image competing with Understeer & Oversteer

You now have the ability to kick her out as you come onto boost, now you cant say you wouldnt mind a bit of that now boys and girls

[Nirvandan]

Sorry boys and girls, but after having a MPS3 Gen1 with decent power in my possession over the last week, AWD is definately needed TRACTION is your friend.

I agree, my MPS3 is no really putting out that much power but I do feel a lot of the time the power is wasted, mostly when launching from stand still. Dont wanna think how bad it is for other guys with more power.

Cornering wise i dont feel the need for AWD though

[240MPS]

I agree, my MPS3 is no really putting out that much power but I do feel a lot of the time the power is wasted, mostly when launching from stand still. Dont wanna think how bad it is for other guys with more power.

Cornering wise i dont feel the need for AWD though

This car you talk off really puts the power down nicely with the changes that have be done to it compared to mine,and I've said it before that i was hating my car not long ago with the power and torque and now have adjusted how to use the power learn to adjust just like changing cars . I don't think awd would help me in any way it would be nice off the mark only but for cornering and all the other things not to sure, just like changing tracks you adjust on how the car handles and goes, i drove the MPS6 and MPS3 at Qld Raceway and prefered the 3 when I though the 6 would be better, everyone for there own. In all I did vote, that i would pay for the awd and pay the extra $5000. I'm not for drag racing more on the racing track days etc Just my 2 cents worth..

[YOU LOSE]

Sorry boys and girls, but after having a MPS3 Gen1 with decent power in my possession over the last week, AWD is definately needed sure it would take away some of the handful pigish style it has but, TRACTION is your friend. Not all AWD is bad. . . The Evo's, WRX & STi's are the worst to think of when you think about AWD as they are all computer controlled.

Bare in mind that my normal daily is a Nissan GTiR (AWD turbo) (Baby Godzilla), now my AWD does not have 1 ounce of computer help. . Mechanical AWD baby the only way.

Cause understeer is fun dont get me wrong, But image competing with Understeer & Oversteer

You now have the ability to kick her out as you come onto boost, now you cant say you wouldnt mind a bit of that now boys and girls

As i've told you before Micheal you have been spoilt , but tell me have you learned all this driving to work & back in the traffic I'm quite happy just the way it is , but I have never owned a awd & NEVER will own a computer controlled car Ít's raining today Micheal have fun in the wet Just to add to the arguement some food 4 thought Mazda built protype awd 3 mps's & tested them on roads & Tracks in europe with rally & racing drivers , the decision was not to produce awd the reasons being from memory was awd added to much weight to an allready heavy car ,plus it was more responsive & fun to drive in fwd only & the exrta cost would be closer to 10 k from memory .In my opinion Mazda should introduce both 2wd & awd option's as I am positive there is a market for both .Having said that they no longer sell the mps6 becuase the sales were not what they expected .MPS3 first & 2nd in class C at Bathurst 7th & 8 th outright , Targa Tasmania 2nd in showroom class inc awd evo,s & sti's, rwd Hi performance cars 8 th outright impressive for a fwd car , plus more class wins & outright podium finishes by Jake Cammerliri in production racing I rest my case .


Col

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 AM ----------

Just as a personal opinion and because I drive Brads MPS3 I can say with some authority as a fairly regular driver of both the 6 & 3 MPS they really are very different cars. My 6 is a much smoother and very deceiving performance car. I think the deception of performance and handling is the reason they were/are so underated by the media. So quiet and smooth, even when the loud pedal is pushed. The mps3 is firmer riding - has hugely less suspension travel ( Brad's 3 cocks its left leg exiting our street) and is considerably twitchier because of the shorter wheelbase. The two cars really can't be compared as one is a HOT HATCH and the other is a LUXURY SEDAN vastly different categories.

So as Brett says - it's no competition between the two and get the post back on track

I'll probably buy a MPS3 to replace the MPS6 when it's due as the only other cars that come close to the 6 are out of my price range (Golf R or Audi)

Hi Russell ,
reserve your judgement on the 3 mps untill you have driven MADAZ in January mate I think you may be suprised by what Ivé been able to achive ,I will certainally value your apprasel .

Col

[Nirvandan]

This car you talk off really puts the power down nicely with the changes that have be done to it compared to mine,and I've said it before that i was hating my car not long ago with the power and torque and now have adjusted how to use the power learn to adjust just like changing cars . I don't think awd would help me in any way it would be nice off the mark only but for cornering and all the other things not to sure, just like changing tracks you adjust on how the car handles and goes, i drove the MPS6 and MPS3 at Qld Raceway and prefered the 3 when I though the 6 would be better, everyone for there own. In all I did vote, that i would pay for the awd and pay the extra $5000. I'm not for drag racing more on the racing track days etc Just my 2 cents worth..

Cheers Rino great to know there is ways to improve the traction, I dont hate mine but just I do get a bit frustrated when all i do in 1st and 2nd is spin the wheels...., on a roll start is just the perfect weapon.

[YOU LOSE]

Cheers Rino great to know there is ways to improve the traction, I dont hate mine but just I do get a bit frustrated when all i do in 1st and 2nd is spin the wheels...., on a roll start is just the perfect weapon.

Hi AL, I've gone about things a little differently with MADAZ when I'm in Bris in late Jan early Feb you are welcome to a drive if you like

Col

[Nirvandan]

That would be awesome, once i have seen it for myself i can follow your steps and give AWD the finger once and for all

[240MPS]

It's definately different Al...

[Grajy]

Wow. Touchy subject this 4 VS 2 wheels thing goes.
Now I've had a tune done, I would like some more traction. I like my power through the front wheels, BUT, I'd be interested in driving a AWDMPS3.
My opinion only: I don't like the look of the 6. The front end makes me gag...

[kmh001]

I'd like to comment on the effect that AWD would have on cornering. It's simple physics that FWD cars are inherent under steerers. This characteristic can be reduced with suspension tuning but can never be eliminated. They are fundamentally point and squirt platforms because physics just doesn't allow balanced cornering to be achieved at the limit. It's true that you can cheat a little bit by tuning the suspension for over steering and chucking the car into a corner then using the FWD to drive out of the over steering condition. But this only works for short duration curves and the rest of the time the car has edgy and unpleasant handling. This method is a little quicker than the usual FWD cornering but it's still not the fastest way through a corner.

In comparison, a RWD or AWD platform is not handicapped by inherent under steering. With the rear (or F & R) wheels driving the car and suspension tuned for neutral balance, the cornering dynamics are completely different and significantly higher cornering speeds can be achieved, which means that at normal speeds you're not even close to the limit of the car. It's absolutely fine for guys to prefer the FWD experience and I don't begrudge that, but I'd hate to think that someone might actually believe that AWD would offer no other benefit than improved traction off the mark.

An AWD 3MPS would be a better handling car than the FWD version (so long as Mazda got the suspension tune correct), and assuming it was driven by someone who knows how to drive an AWD, it would be much quicker. On that point it needs to be said that no one ever learned to master an AWD platform during a test drive so it's not a fair comparison.

There is a FWD, AWD and RWD car in my driveway so I'm not biased, and I know how to drive a FWD (remember I won the driving competition at the 3MPS drive day (well Ted really did but that's another story)). But I find FWD platforms boring because the chassis isn't balanced and mid-corner limits are so low. As a driving enthusiast I'd really really like to see an AWD 3MPS.

[YOU LOSE]

That would be awesome, once i have seen it for myself i can follow your steps and give AWD the finger once and for all

Ok AL your on ,I think I have tamed the torque steer to a exceptable ( for a modded mps ) degree plus madaz puts the power to the ground without excessive wheel spin .The Factory settings that restrict 1 & 2 have been programed out it will now rev to over 7k even in 6th gear power ban is smooth & seemless from 2.5 thou to over 7 thou as Rino will testerfy it is different & many others in OZMPS in Cairns would agree , but the proof is in the pudding you will have to see for your self .

Col

[Nirvandan]

No probs

Would be interesting to compare traction from stand still with my old WRX.

[240MPS]

Lets not lose focus of this thread it's about the poll on this thread,would you pay the difference to have AWD on a MPS 3 or not..... Not about comparing to the bigger brother 6 or any others..... The AWD was definatley a wierd feel when i drove it on the track but after time like any car you will fit into the groove on how any car feels.........I've never owned a AWD but have owned 4WD and i know when i switched to AWD mode makes a hell of a difference in cornering in the sand and dirt, saved my bacon a few times, I think TEAM GREEN would agree to that when he was up if i didn't have the front wheels pulling me around it could of been a different story that day......

[Nirvandan]

team who?



---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

Lets not lose focus of this thread it's about the poll on this thread,would you pay the difference to have AWD on a MPS 3 or not..... Not about comparing to the bigger brother 6 or any others..... The AWD was definatley a wierd feel when i drove it on the track but after time like any car you will fit into the groove on how any car feels.........I've never owned a AWD but have owned 4WD and i know when i switched to AWD mode makes a hell of a difference in cornering in the sand and dirt, saved my bacon a few times, I think TEAM GREEN would agree to that when he was up if i didn't have the front wheels pulling me around it could of been a different story that day......

I owned a WRX for almost 4 years and yes AWD does make a diference yet I dont feel the need for AWD when cornering on the MPS3, maybe i just like the way it is with the MPS3...launch froms tand still at the moment is another matter....

[YOU LOSE]

In all honesty I would probably need to drive a awd mps 3 for a week or so then I could decide , having said that I cannot fault the handling of my own MPS .

Col

[cbills]

AWD would more or less turn it into a wrx somewhat, but what about the concept of a RWD MPS? Ohhh yes I'd pay for that!

[LILZLR]

As i've told you before Micheal you have been spoilt , but tell me have you learned all this driving to work & back in the traffic I'm quite happy just the way it is , but I have never owned a awd & NEVER will own a computer controlled car Ít's raining today Micheal have fun in the wet Just to add to the arguement some food 4 thought Mazda built protype awd 3 mps's & tested them on roads & Tracks in europe with rally & racing drivers , the decision was not to produce awd the reasons being from memory was awd added to much weight to an allready heavy car ,plus it was more responsive & fun to drive in fwd only & the exrta cost would be closer to 10 k from memory .In my opinion Mazda should introduce both 2wd & awd option's as I am positive there is a market for both .Having said that they no longer sell the mps6 becuase the sales were not what they expected .MPS3 first & 2nd in class C at Bathurst 7th & 8 th outright , Targa Tasmania 2nd in showroom class inc awd evo,s & sti's, rwd Hi performance cars 8 th outright impressive for a fwd car , plus more class wins & outright podium finishes by Jake Cammerliri in production racing I rest my case .


Col

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 AM ----------



Hi Russell ,
reserve your judgement on the 3 mps untill you have driven MADAZ in January mate I think you may be suprised by what Ivé been able to achive ,I will certainally value your apprasel .

Col

Yes very true Col, I have been spoilt with my GTiR, but remember my AWD GTiR has 0 computers controlling my AWD distribution and diff controller, she is all done through weight counter, and foot to pedal A true golden AWD car of the 90s.

Cause a FWD with decent power is frustrating to drive in the wet, not even trying you brake traction and just sit on the spot spinning and wasting precious power, but my AWD girl wet or dry power is put to the ground nicely, sure in the wet you may get some tail happy times but thats all fun of the AWD experience competing with Oversteer and Understeer.

Sorry MPS guys but I wouldnt dream of having a decent power FWD car, AWD or Rwd. No subsitute for traction

I think it is time some MPS owners had a small taste of REAL AWD magic not that Evo, WRX, crap

Once I have finished intalling all my new goodies on LILZLR will have a day/cruise were you can all have a play in the GTiR

---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 AM ----------

AWD would more or less turn it into a wrx somewhat, but what about the concept of a RWD MPS? Ohhh yes I'd pay for that!

Nope silly Idea, MPS doesnt have the wheelbase/track, would just spin out to easy coming into the corner

[YOU LOSE]

Ok Micheal I hear what your saying I will have to have a drive of baby godzilla & be converted but if a awd MPS3 was to come on the market it probably would be computer contolled & as such I would probably prefer the fun of driving MADAZ in the wet or dry If a awd MPS was a option wouldnt it be just another evo ,wrx clone ?????? '


Col

[Doug_MPS6]

AWD is always better than FWD (bad engineering excepted). Why generate power when you risk losing some of it, if you have the option of transmitting it more efficiently to the road, ignoring for the argument the additional costs of doing so.

On that matter, moaning about an MPS3 being prone to wheel-spin in FWD when you've just increased the power from 190Kw by tweaking the engine is just silly, especially when the manufacturer has obviously been doing his damndest to control it, even in stock trim, with a torque limiting diff. You are plainly at the limits of design for that weight and balance configuration. To me, any wheel-spin, regardless of front or back slip, doesn't say "wow, look how powerful my car is" but rather "look how little traction I have" or at worst "I'm a dork with no throttle finesse".

Adding two more paws to the MPS3 may be a nice idea to discuss hurriedly but there are a bunch of considerations to doing so which I haven't seen referred to, including suspension modification, weight addition and interior space and floor pan modifications. Some or all of these may make the task nigh on impossible without the manufacturer jacking the number plates apart and essentially putting a whole new car between them.

While AWD in an MPS3 4 x 4 would fix a number of the traction and handling issues raised, with the extra weight likely to be a benefit, so far it seems like a wish that is so remote as to barely warrant the text devoted to it so far, including mine.

And it will still only attract a certain following, regardless of price, as the rest of us might still want more room or boot-space than is possible in the new AWD format.

Like that provided in a MPS6.

Which is why I won't pay $65K+ for a Golf R.

----------------------------------

On this note:
I was involved in a twin-engined Mini project back in the 70's. Two 1275cc Mini Cooper engines in a Mini. One in front, one in the back. Synchronized gearshift on two boxes. Went like hell. You could try that given the MPS3 setup. 400Kw. Almost 50:50 weight distribution. Worth a try for someone with a workshop and a gas torch!

[Scaredycrow]

^ hence my mention of something innovative.

If we wanted poor mans awd, we'd have not bought MPS3's. What this thread is about, I think, is trying to discern if the current level of tech available out there can give us Awd (or 4WD) while maintaining the character and attitude the MPS3 already has. If the answer to that is no, and that's probably the case, at least let us dream!