User Tag List

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 66

Thread: standard intercooler

  1. Default

    hey, here is the dyno sheet for before and after

    about the cost, mine was an R&D project for them so i got a good deal, don't know about the RRP price but i will ask the guys
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MPS Dyno Sheet.jpg 
Views:	137 
Size:	95.1 KB 
ID:	7130  

  2. Default

    the price for the kit is: AUD$1150.00(Exclude shipping), for anyone who's interested, there is also a special pre order price

  3. Default

    That graph is
    117Kw
    The lowest I can remember seeing was 132Kw & that was a MPS6. MPS3 are normally in the high 130's & 140's.
    Just need to remember its only a Dyno print out
    HDi have been around for a long time, there a arm of that Chinese brand Autobahn 88.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bathurst
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    That low and in 4th gear???

    I suspect dyno tampering to gain the results. Easy done.
    But numbers mean nothing, if your happy with it then great
    Last edited by bd581; 24-01-2011 at 09:34 AM.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    9,459

    Default

    seems like weird #'s to me... but as brad said, as long as you're happy with the result, that's all that matters

  6. Default

    That's interesting... because i was there for the 1st dyno run and i don't think there was any tampering.... plus, there should be about 30-40% lost from the engine to the wheels due to friction lost and other. since it's 190kW as per factory spec then 120kW should be about right.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    9,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EGDIVAD View Post
    That's interesting... because i was there for the 1st dyno run and i don't think there was any tampering.... plus, there should be about 30-40% lost from the engine to the wheels due to friction lost and other. since it's 190kW as per factory spec then 120kW should be about right.
    actually, it shouldnt really be much more than 15-20% for a manual gearbox, unless it's a low reading dyno like MPS Garage's
    luke 3mps's car read ~172kw on that dyno vs 212kw at the tunehouse dyno day
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
    From stock, to GT3071, to substantially less modded, many lessons learned!
    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

  8. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EGDIVAD View Post
    That's interesting... because i was there for the 1st dyno run and i don't think there was any tampering.... plus, there should be about 30-40% lost from the engine to the wheels due to friction lost and other. since it's 190kW as per factory spec then 120kW should be about right.
    30-40 is far too high. As said it should be a max 15-20. As I said earlier in the thread, mine is complete standard and pulled 166.

    All experiences I've had with rwd manual skylines have seen about 15% drivetrain loss.
    Owner of the Mutant Gen I.

  9. #49

    Default

    Before and after is all that matters as a percentage.

    It looks like about 25% increase.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    hunter valley
    Posts
    6,403

    Default

    unless u do the first run THAN modd, same temp, place etc etc etc second run! theres no point if somethings changed. as Troy said before and afters, tuning are all that dynos are good for.. ( there a good reason to go tuners and catch up with mates for a dyno day)..

  11. Default

    dyno was done at the same place before and after the mod, with the same setups, and etc. there is a video of it on youtube:
    YouTube - Mps 3 HDi intercooler kit dyno

    i also found this:
    "Because of frictional and mechanical losses in the various drivetrain components, the measured rear wheel brake horsepower is generally 15-20 percent less than the brake horsepower measured at the crankshaft or flywheel on an engine dynamometer.[4] Other sources, after researching several different "engine" dyno software packages, found that the engine dyno user can integrally add "frictional loss" channel factors of +10% to +15% to the flywheel power, raising the claim that 20% to 25% or even more power is actually lost between the crankshaft at high power outputs.
    However the % gain in the same dyno is accurate because it is the same car, same dyno, same calibration, same fiction and drivetrain loses."

  12. #52
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bathurst
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    Troy is right about the number is pointless, its the percentage that counts. About time somebody sees that.

    Drivetrain loss is a myth
    There are far to many variables to give a number
    Driveshaft and tailshaft weights change the percentage loss, if a tail shaft is out of balance, the type of diff and gearbox gears, the oil used, the heat, and of cause friction.
    More power an engine produces, greater the Drivetrain loss can be due to the extra loads, friction and heat placed on the drivetrain

    This is yet one more reason I don't like the way dynos are being used today.
    Do not compare with anybody else. And the numbers on a sheet mean nothing, they don't need to be there.
    They are for tuning purposes first and self comparison second, no other need.

    Intercoolers ate a bad thing to test on dynos, read the CPe fact sheet you can find on the mps garage site under the CPe intercooler they sell

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North side, Vic
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,745

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bd581 View Post
    Troy is right about the number is pointless, its the percentage that counts. About time somebody sees that.

    Drivetrain loss is a myth
    There are far to many variables to give a number
    Driveshaft and tailshaft weights change the percentage loss, if a tail shaft is out of balance, the type of diff and gearbox gears, the oil used, the heat, and of cause friction.
    More power an engine produces, greater the Drivetrain loss can be due to the extra loads, friction and heat placed on the drivetrain

    This is yet one more reason I don't like the way dynos are being used today.
    Do not compare with anybody else. And the numbers on a sheet mean nothing, they don't need to be there.
    They are for tuning purposes first and self comparison second, no other need.

    Intercoolers ate a bad thing to test on dynos, read the CPe fact sheet you can find on the mps garage site under the CPe intercooler they sell
    What are you talking about?
    Drivetrain loss isnt a myth, its a fact. Put an engine on an engine dyno then put it on a hub or roller dyno - I can guarantee they wont be the same figures.. why?
    Gear ratios, Rolling diameter, diff ratios, losses due to transferring power between it all... everything between the engine and the wheels is the drivetrain = drivetrain losses.

    Dynos should not be used to compare figures between different locations, unless the same dyno is used.
    It SHOULD be used to calculate performance increase between modifications.
    Stock>Dyno>Mod>Dyno>Mod>Dyno

    The numbers on the sheet DO need to be there, its a benchmark.

    If there was a better, more accurate, repeatable and easy way to test these changes I am sure we would be doing it.. however the humble dyno is all we have at the moment.

    Some dynos (ie with the little blower fan) would not be suitable for testing coolers, howerver some places like tunehouse that have a complete temperature controlled wind tunnel are suitable.

    I understand you are anti dyno, but when im spending my hard earned on mods I want to know what im gaining.
    MY16 WRX STi Crystal White Pearl
    -= Rally Armour Flaps - 2XS Muffler Delete =-

    FG FPV F6 MKII Vixen - SOLD
    -= Bluepower SRI - ID1000 Injectors - Venom Cat - XCAL3 - ProcessWest Stg2 Intercooler - 359 RWKW=-

    CX9 Grand Touring Stormy Blue
    -= The rolling armchair =-

    6 MPS Velocity Red - SOLD
    -=Cat Back Exhaust - Pirelli PZero=-

    3 MPS Aurora Blue - SOLD
    -=PG SRI - PG Inlet - ETS TMIC - GFB Hybrid BOV - Best Mufflers DP - Eibach Pro - AccessPort STG2 - Autotech HPFP - ITV22 - Michelin PSS=-

  14. #54
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bathurst
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    I said there are to many variables to give a number
    Thats what i'm talking about. The rule of thumb 15% etc, is a myth.

    If you know how to read a dyno graph properly, you don't need numbers.
    You look at the curve to see where its making power/torque, and how much.
    All the peak number is good for is to brag and make yourself feel good

  15. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EGDIVAD View Post
    Thanks guys!

    i got the older one, without the bonnet scoop. i saw this article in "Fast Fours" that there is FMIC kit for the MPS 6 from HDI in Sydney and it's not too bad, gave a 26kw more output just from the cooler change, i woundering if they can do one for the MPS 3.
    I heard recently HDI in Sydney just finisned developed the kit for MPS3

    ---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
    What are you talking about?
    Drivetrain loss isnt a myth, its a fact. Put an engine on an engine dyno then put it on a hub or roller dyno - I can guarantee they wont be the same figures.. why?
    Gear ratios, Rolling diameter, diff ratios, losses due to transferring power between it all... everything between the engine and the wheels is the drivetrain = drivetrain losses.

    Dynos should not be used to compare figures between different locations, unless the same dyno is used.
    It SHOULD be used to calculate performance increase between modifications.
    Stock>Dyno>Mod>Dyno>Mod>Dyno

    The numbers on the sheet DO need to be there, its a benchmark.

    If there was a better, more accurate, repeatable and easy way to test these changes I am sure we would be doing it.. however the humble dyno is all we have at the moment.

    Some dynos (ie with the little blower fan) would not be suitable for testing coolers, howerver some places like tunehouse that have a complete temperature controlled wind tunnel are suitable.

    I understand you are anti dyno, but when im spending my hard earned on mods I want to know what im gaining.
    i totaly agree with u but Just a correction no tunning shop has a wind tunnel in Australia and Wind tunnel are not for dyno they are used for Wind resistance test :Wind tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "This wind tunnel starts at 45 feet and narrows to 20 feet in diameter. Two 40 foot fans were driven by a 40,000hp electric motor. Large scale aircraft models could be tested at air speeds of 400mph"!!

    do u know what will happened if u put a person in to a car with window open in a wind tunnel when it is switched on? there is may be a missunderstanding or a mix up a high volume fan.

    Moreover, it is not temperture controlled either! because u need a air conditioner that is bigger then the Opera house uses inorder to compensate the air that is being sucked out from the dyno room!!!

    from that fan we have seen there it is over 10,000 CMM and just for reference it is like trying to cool 4 x Olympic size swimming pool per min!!

    But i have to say they do have one of the best set up there in Australia!

    ---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by darkness View Post
    30-40 is far too high. As said it should be a max 15-20. As I said earlier in the thread, mine is complete standard and pulled 166.

    All experiences I've had with rwd manual skylines have seen about 15% drivetrain loss.
    the only way to find out is to do a secound one and compare if they can repeat the result. but form HDi VR4

    they did used tunehouse dyno for the experiement and obtained the similar gain!!

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    9,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by in96power View Post
    I heard recently HDI in Sydney just finisned developed the kit for MPS3

    ---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------



    i totaly agree with u but Just a correction no tunning shop has a wind tunnel in Australia and Wind tunnel are not for dyno they are used for Wind resistance test :Wind tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "This wind tunnel starts at 45 feet and narrows to 20 feet in diameter. Two 40 foot fans were driven by a 40,000hp electric motor. Large scale aircraft models could be tested at air speeds of 400mph"!!

    do u know what will happened if u put a person in to a car with window open in a wind tunnel when it is switched on? there is may be a missunderstanding or a mix up a high volume fan.

    Moreover, it is not temperture controlled either! because u need a air conditioner that is bigger then the Opera house uses inorder to compensate the air that is being sucked out from the dyno room!!!

    from that fan we have seen there it is over 10,000 CMM and just for reference it is like trying to cool 4 x Olympic size swimming pool per min!!

    But i have to say they do have one of the best set up there in Australia!

    ---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------



    the only way to find out is to do a secound one and compare if they can repeat the result. but form HDi VR4

    they did used tunehouse dyno for the experiement and obtained the similar gain!!
    they have fans capable of over 100km/hr
    and a bloody serious air conditioner to go with it

    did you also read the page you linked to?
    "once it's all sealed up, it can be dialled in to pretty much any temperature and wind strength you want"\

    that sounds to me like it can do what you say it cant do...

    and we were never saying the gain wasnt believable, it's more the fact that the absolute #'s seem off
    Last edited by SarcasticOne; 25-01-2011 at 02:31 PM.
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
    From stock, to GT3071, to substantially less modded, many lessons learned!
    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North side, Vic
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,745

    Default

    Its a tunnel with a big fan at the end... thats my definition of wind tunnel
    It is temperature controlled and apparently can be pressurized to simulate altitudes...

    Performance Tuning Sydney

  18. Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by SarcasticOne View Post
    they have fans capable of over 100km/hr
    and a bloody serious air conditioner to go with it

    did you also read the page you linked to?
    "once it's all sealed up, it can be dialled in to pretty much any temperature and wind strength you want"\

    that sounds to me like it can do what you say it cant do...

    and we were never saying the gain wasnt believable, it's more the fact that the absolute #'s seem off
    100 km/hr is speed not volume !! An air gun can produce a speed over 250km/hr

    and if it is sealed where is the air coming and going? i think they wont prefer to dyno a car in a sealed room however if it is sealed and the the temperature can be controlled just like the air con in a house.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North side, Vic
    Age
    37
    Posts
    6,745

    Default

    Dude it does seal. We had our dyno day there I'm not bullshitting you ROFL. They started it up to 20% and it was frigging strong when we were standing in there. in any case it's loads better than the pissy little fans other places wheel in front of the cars. State of the art? Yes.

  20. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
    Dude it does seal. We had our dyno day there I'm not bullshitting you ROFL. They started it up to 20% and it was frigging strong when we were standing in there. in any case it's loads better than the pissy little fans other places wheel in front of the cars. State of the art? Yes.
    sorry my bad ,
    i am not saying they are not state of art Yes they are one of the best!
    but i am just trying to make sense here for the members here, so it is sealed but air can blow thru? or they are recirculating the air in the chamber?

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •