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Thread: Hyperflow TMIC: Impressions so far

  1. #21

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    i know they are about to start production on a few kits so they are taking orders, after that they need to order more core's etc. from the states. so if you were going to get one, get one now is hyperflow's advice.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbetty View Post
    what things ... they have been fairly quiet on here
    I had an early production unit on my car last week but there are some minor fitment issues still to be resolved so it's gone back for adjustment. Once they get it exactly right I'm sure there will be some good information coming.

    Gone to Volvo


  3. #23

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    indeed the heatsoak 'issue' shouldn't really be an issue when the car is constantly moving. I suppose the main concern for a TMIC is how quick it can dissipate that heat gained while the car is in a slow/stationary state to its normal operating temperatures. improving ducting so that more air gets onto the cooler and also, although going to be a hard issue to tackle, finding a good flow for the air to escape on the otherwise.

    Eventually I will look into ducting from the engine bay for the air to escape down underneath. the big engine bay cover on the bottom may not be helping this cause, but you wouldn't want to remove it either

  4. #24

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    Quite right. I'm confident there is sufficient air entering the duct. And I've seen the TMIC working well with the stock ducting. But as I said, there are likely to be significant gains made by improving the low pressure area near the TMIC to draw more of the hot air out.

    The following analogy is plagiarised, but it's a good one. An old-time Lockheed engineer known as “Dr Harold” explained that “You can’t push a wagon with a rope, you can only pull it.” In other words, no matter how much air pressure you had at the inlet, you needed lower pressure on the other side to pull the cooling air through.

    The air going through the IC core needs to be pulled through, and to do that we need a low pressure area down stream of the core to create a pressure gradient.

    I have explored the idea of installing some ducting to connect the underside of the TMIC with a low pressure source. But there's not a lot of room behind the engine and I can't get away from the fact there is a powerful low pressure source just a few cm away...... on the upper side of the bonnet. I've almost talked myself into cutting a hole in the bonnet. The bonnet vent arrangement that I saw on the Aston Martin last weekend was just perfect, I'd like to be able to replicate it.

    Gone to Volvo


  5. #25

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    bonnet vent would be good, however getting the final finish looking good without spending a large wad is another story

  6. #26
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    Im just about to fit one of these to my new car (MY10 Forester) which will set me up well for future mods... looking at the foz and gen 2 MPS im wondering if you could graft/ mould or just use a similar bonnet as these cars (there has to be aftermarket bonnets on the market) as they allow a greater flow of air through the TMIC.

    The other difference ive noticed (after seeing LRM MPS3g2) is the foz's TMIC sits a fair bit futher back on the engine thus there is a larger area underneath the TMIC for the hot air drawn from the engine bay...im not sure how this can be achieved in a 3 or 6 though (just an observation).
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmh001 View Post
    I think the heat soak issue needs to be put in context. Based on testing of the prototyp Hypeflow TMIC, this is what I found:

    On average, the engine spends very little time actually making boost when driven on the road, and the constant airflow keeps the core temp low most of the time. When we first get on the boost, despite the fact we are now making hot air, the initial low temp of the IC core chills the intake air and the boost air temp (BAT) goes down instead of up. Therefore during initial acceleration, the IC acts as a heat sink .

    If we stay on the boost for an extended period, the hot air from the turbo uses up the latent temperature defecit in the core and the core temp will rise causing a corresponding BAT rise. At this point the IC changes from being a heat sink to a heat exchanger and temps will climb until some point determined by the volume of cooling air through the core and the efficieny of the core as a heat exchanger.

    The Hyperflow TMIC has a much larger area than the stocker to admit more cooling air. It does not use an extruded core like some other IC manufacturers do, so it's as efficient as a heat exchanger as you can get. It also has more mass (more thermal inertia) and will take longer to heat up, at the expene of taking longer to cool down. But I'm hoping to find that the enhanced cooling ability takes care of the cooling down issue.

    A TMIC will heat soak if the car is stationary and there is no airflow through the core. But if the car is stationary, inlet air temp is largely irrelevant. The only time heat soak is an issue is when the engine is shut down and restarted shortly after, or when stuck in traffic on a very hot day. If I'm stuck in traffic I obviously don't care if I'm down on power. After all that testing I'm very comfortable with the decision to stay with a TMIC.

    I'm also convinced there are further gains to be made from finding a low pressure source to suck more cooling air through the core.
    This is precisely correct, and precisely my point Unlike you I do care very much if my car is sitting in traffic and becomes down on power. I like my car to perform they way I'm used to it performing whether its been sitting in traffic for 30 mins or not. I've found that (with the stock tmic) it takes quite a long time (minutes) to return to "normal" performace after sitting in heavy traffic in summer time.

    For a track car, this would be completely irrelevant. As mine is a daily drive, I feel its relevant. I like having zoom zoom available for if it's required

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaredycrow View Post
    This is precisely correct, and precisely my point Unlike you I do care very much if my car is sitting in traffic and becomes down on power. I like my car to perform they way I'm used to it performing whether its been sitting in traffic for 30 mins or not. I've found that (with the stock tmic) it takes quite a long time (minutes) to return to "normal" performace after sitting in heavy traffic in summer time.

    For a track car, this would be completely irrelevant. As mine is a daily drive, I feel its relevant. I like having zoom zoom available for if it's required
    I understand your sentiment, and I don't disagree. But putting it into perspective, how much power do you need when the car is stationary because there are other cars blocking your progress? Under those circumstances the only power required is to drive the aircon and stereo and the engine handls this well enough at idle rpm.

    I think there is something else going on that explains the sluggish response you're describing. I've plotted BAT in a variety of circumstances and when airflow commences, the core temp of the stock TMIC returns to normal in about 30 seconds. It has a low mass and low thermal inertia, so it responds to temp changes rapidly. I don't think it's heat soak that you're feeling, I think it's the adaptive part of the PCM that's causing it. Sitting in traffic will definitely put the PCM into nana mode and make the car feel sluggish.

    Gone to Volvo


  9. #29
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    Could be onto something there. I hadn't considered the PCM for that for that specific "fault".

    How can I/you tell the PCM has dropped to economy mode? Should this not be entirely ignored if I go to WOT suddenly?

    Bit off topic

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaredycrow View Post
    Could be onto something there. I hadn't considered the PCM for that for that specific "fault".

    How can I/you tell the PCM has dropped to economy mode? Should this not be entirely ignored if I go to WOT suddenly?

    Bit off topic
    I don't mind getting off topic. To my knowledge there is no way of telling which maps the PCM is using, other than how the car feels.

    Now this was controvertial last time and it will be again. But for what it's worth......back in 2006 when Mazda offered advanced driving courses to MPS buyers, one of the trainers suggested that the PCM could be induced into high performance mode by applying full throttle six times in quick succession. It was discussed on one of the forums at the time and received a lot of ridicule.

    I make no claim about whether this advice is right or not.........just puttin it out there. Try it and see what you think.

    Gone to Volvo


  11. #31

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    pcm?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lup15 View Post
    pcm?
    yeah, wot lup15 said.... pcm??

    Leon

  13. #33

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    PCM is the Mazda term for the ECU, stands for powertrain control module.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmh001 View Post
    I don't mind getting off topic. To my knowledge there is no way of telling which maps the PCM is using, other than how the car feels.

    Now this was controvertial last time and it will be again. But for what it's worth......back in 2006 when Mazda offered advanced driving courses to MPS buyers, one of the trainers suggested that the PCM could be induced into high performance mode by applying full throttle six times in quick succession. It was discussed on one of the forums at the time and received a lot of ridicule.

    I make no claim about whether this advice is right or not.........just puttin it out there. Try it and see what you think.
    Thanks for that mate, I'd be a bit dubious about the "fix" but you never know!

    What exactly constitutes economy mode on these machines? Boost wound back? Timing pulled? Other?

    I'd have thought that any ECU/PCM should imeediately dump "economy" mode upon transition to open loop, induced by hitting WOT...

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmh001 View Post
    PCM is the Mazda term for the ECU, stands for powertrain control module.
    Thanks you sir,

    Leon

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