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View Poll Results: Do you use Nitrogen?

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  • Yes I use it

    6 24.00%
  • No I don't use it

    19 76.00%
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Thread: Nitrogen in Tyres? Do you use it?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    59
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    It's all good Col, I not saying that Doc is wrong there's no right or wrong... There are people out there that just don't look after their cars like my sister and law destroyed brand new tyres in 6 months and my daughter if I didn't look after her car she would be walking...

  2. #42

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    Didn't mean to offend anyone, just stating the facts... and the last time I checked an MPS is hardly an aircraft or F1 car, hence the reason why you'll never really notice the benefits that these people do. Once again, I'm sure when F1 and aircraft engineers factor this in they allow for it to be put into tyres "correctly".

    Quote " Once you use nitrogen, you have to continue using nitrogen to extract any benefit that nitrogen exhibits. Once you introduce any amount of compressed air into a nitrogen environment, it negates any properties or benefits that nitrogen has to offer."

    And here is another report

    Nitrogen for Tyres

    The subject of using nitrogen to inflate car tyres has received considerable publicity over the past few years; particularly since some tyre retailers have begun promoting its supposed benefits.

    It is well known that nitrogen gas has been used to inflate the tyres of racing cars, aircraft and heavy commercial vehicles for some time. However it is only relatively recently that it has come into use in normal passenger cars.
    So what is nitrogen?

    Nitrogen is a colourless, odourless, tasteless, and non-toxic gas that forms about 78% of the Earth's atmosphere. The benefits claimed for using nitrogen over compressed air for inflating tyres are that it:

    *
    Reduces the tyre's running temperature
    *
    Improves the ride quality
    *
    Increases tyre life
    *
    Keeps tyre pressures more constant
    *
    Slows the rate of pressure loss
    *
    Doesn't react with the tyre and rim materials

    The following is a discussion of these points.
    Reduces the tyre's running temperature

    While there is some truth in this statement, the difference relates to the moisture content of the inflation gas rather than the use of nitrogen per se. In fact, dry compressed air will also produce a cooler running tyre. It's also only likely to be of benefit in cases where the tyres are operating at or near their maximum load and/or speed capacities.

    Nitrogen improves ride quality
    No explanation has been offered as to why this should be the case. There should be no significant difference in the way air and nitrogen behave at normal tyre operating pressures and temperatures.

    Nitrogen increases tyre life
    A tyre's operating temperature plays a part in how rapidly it will wear. A reduction in temperature at high speeds and loads will be beneficial. However claims by some supporters that nitrogen will double tyre life are questionable.

    Reduced pressure build up
    The reason that tyre pressures should only be checked when cold is that the tyre’s inflation pressure increases in relation to temperature. Nitrogen is claimed to provide a more stable pressure range in relation to tyre temperature. However once again the moisture content of the inflation gas plays a bigger part than the gas itself. Any benefits are likely to be achieved only under heavy load and/or high-speed conditions.

    Pressure loss is slower with nitrogen than with air
    Tyre liners and tubes are to some degree porous, and as a result air will eventually leach out. Hence the need to regularly check tyre pressures. Nitrogen, due to its chemical structure, is slower to leak out than compressed air. Therefore the pressure loss is slower. However that doesn't mean that regular pressure checks can be neglected as there is still the possibility of a puncture or some other form of slow leak.

    Nitrogen doesn't react with the metal wheel rim or the tyre materials
    Probably true. The presence of oxygen and moisture inside the tyre can cause oxidisation (rust) of the metal components. There is also a suggestion that air reacts with the rubber of the tyre itself, however it is not clear if this is detrimental or in any way reduces the life of the average car tyre. Because nitrogen is an inert gas and because it is dry, this problem is, in theory, eliminated. However, unless the tyre is evacuated (i.e. the air is removed) before the nitrogen is added, there will still be some air and possibly moisture in the tyre.

    Disadvantages of nitrogen
    Nitrogen also has a few disadvantages that should be taken into account. These include:

    *
    Cost
    *
    Maintenance
    *
    Availability

    Cost

    The typical charge for nitrogen is between $5 and $10 per tyre for a passenger car.
    Maintenance

    Once your tyres are filled with nitrogen it's important that only nitrogen is used for top up purposes. Adding normal compressed air will negate any benefits of the nitrogen.
    Availability

    Nitrogen simply isn't readily available everywhere. It's generally restricted to specialist tyre dealers.
    A few things to consider

    The earth's atmosphere is comprised of roughly 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen with a few trace gasses mixed in, so when you fill your tyres with compressed air, you are getting about 78% nitrogen anyway.

    Not all aircraft use nitrogen in their tyres. In fact generally only larger aircraft with high altitude capability and high landing and take off speeds and high loads use it. The reason given by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to support its use is that nitrogen, being an inert gas, reduces the risk of high altitude tyre explosions that could damage or destroy an aircraft. Obviously this is hardly a consideration for the average passenger car operator.

    Nitrogen is also sometimes used in the tyres of vehicles that operate in potentially hazardous areas, such as mines, to reduce the risk of fire. It is also commonly used in off-highway vehicles where the tyres operate at their maximum load and are highly stressed.

    A number of tyre manufacturers have produced position papers on nitrogen, as has the Australian Tyre Manufacturers Association. Some tyre manufacturers have declined to comment. Most have indicated that tyre warranties will not be affected by the use of nitrogen.
    Summary

    *
    While using nitrogen in passenger car tyres may produce some benefits in some applications, it is questionable if the average motorist will derive any measurable benefit from its use.
    *
    Using nitrogen does not remove or reduce the need to check tyre pressures as the risk of a puncture or a slow leak is not altered.
    *
    Many of the benefits claimed of nitrogen could be achieved by using dry compressed air from a properly designed and maintained compressed air system.
    *
    Nitrogen cannot replace regular maintenance. Regardless of what inflation gas is used, maximum tyre life will only be achieved if the vehicle and tyres are properly maintained. That means regular checking of tyre pressures, wheel balance and alignment.

    Should you require further assistance please phone our Technical Advisory Department on (07) 3666 9148 or from outside the Brisbane area on 1800 623 456.


    Taken from http://www.racq.com.au/motoring_advi...ogen_for_tyres
    Last edited by mpsJOE; 10-04-2010 at 09:09 AM.
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  3. #43

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    Interesting read, then I saw it was from the RACQ... almost fooled me

  4. #44

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    Not sure what is meant by that, not sure what RACQ even is, all I know is that their argument is backed up by some pretty hard facts, and the fact that no-one else has added to the argument, I'm assuming the point is taken. I too looked into this years ago, and it's not that I'm being pessimistic, just more realistic. It seems tyre shops have just found another way to profit from nothing. Who knows if half of them even use nitrogen when they charge you for it, do you really test it yourself? And as usual, things like these are always promoted by people with a vested interest. Just my 2c
    .

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Age
    52
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    6,388

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpsJOE View Post
    Not sure what is meant by that, not sure what RACQ even is
    RAC = Royal Automobile Club
    Q for Queensland, there's an RAC in most states. In WA they offer breakdown services for members and mechanical advice etc, they also publish a bi monthly magazine with some information, mostly typical journalistic views on cars and motoring for the masses not enthusiasts!
    R36 - Just like an MPS6 except with a growly V6

  6. #46

    Default Re: Nitrogen in Tyres? Do you use it?

    Sorry, champ. Was paying out RACQ, not you. Points towards getting facts, I love to read them, it's just that RACQ, arn't really my choice for having correct information. Some even all of the facts you put up could be correct but I just don't believe them if it comes from RACQ. I remember when they were saying e10 fuel last longer than normal fuel! Ha!

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brackaus View Post
    Sorry, champ. Was paying out RACQ, not you. Points towards getting facts, I love to read them, it's just that RACQ, arn't really my choice for having correct information. Some even all of the facts you put up could be correct but I just don't believe them if it comes from RACQ. I remember when they were saying e10 fuel last longer than normal fuel! Ha!
    lol fair enough, E10 sucks ass. Slightly off topic, but I was told by my mechanic not to use it because most modern day engines aren't really prepared for it yet, something about being too dry. Not that I ever use anything less than 98 anyway.
    .

  8. #48

    Default

    ^.. no lubricating properties.. well very little anyway compared do good old petrol based fluids

  9. Default

    Petroleum based products are synonomus for lubricating one way or a nother. Replacing it with 10% ethanol wont really change this lubricating property. Whether E10 will work in your car or not has more to do with whether the vehicle ECU can cope with the ignition timing changes required - based on the differing fuel mix. Ethanol is a very unpredictable product, which is why we're not running E85 as standard (yet), and my understanding is that most car manufacturers have complained about the more complex engine timing, knock retard issues faced. Whats more, researchers have released a study recently pointing out that a change to Ethanol based fuels creates more C02 into the environment (thru use and manufacture) than the production of hydrocarbon based fuels as a whole - which kinda confuses me as to why QLD and Australia are heading towards Ethanol based fuels at all.

    As a rule of thumb, lubrication in unleaded fuels isnt really necessary these days anyways which is why we're no longer running lead based fuels. Back in the day, lead was the key lubricating component in this case, and not the fuel as such..
    Last edited by Wardski; 17-04-2010 at 10:54 AM.

  10. #50

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    i know its common in race cars because it doesnt heat up, so the pressures stay at a good level for a longer period of time.
    But on a road car? I dont drive so hard that the tyres get hot enough to go off.

  11. #51

    Default

    Among all the mooted benefits listed above, the principle reason some folks go for N2 is that being a slightly larger molecule than O2, it tends to bleed less rapidly through modern rubber/synthetic compounds used in tyre construction, and hence reduces (but not eliminate) pressure loss.

    Also, see http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf on permeation of gases through tyre rubber

    I doubt the average punter is going to be travelling fast enough in this daft speed-restriction obsessed country to make some of the other benefits, like lower coefficient of expansion, matter a damn.

    Cheaper to visit the servo every weekend, I reckon, for my style of motoring at any rate.
    Last edited by Doug_MPS6; 19-04-2010 at 07:28 PM.
    CP_e Standback & PNP; CP_e 3" SS Downpipe; Corksport FMIC with Top-mount K&N filter & OEM Ram CAI; Turbosmart BOV; Dashhawk; Prosport Boost Guage; JBR solid shift bushes; DBA 4000 Wiper-Slot front rotors; Hawk Ferro-Carbon HPS Street front brake pads (@ 69,000km); Sumitomo HTRZIII's in 225/45 x 18

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