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Thread: Turbo upgrade

  1. #1

    Default Turbo upgrade

    I'm considering a turbo upgrade, my concern is, does anybody do one in oz yet? Or will I have to be a pioneer in this field? I want to be able to bolt directly onto my dump pipe and std manifold. Is this possible yet?

  2. #2

    Default

    Depends what turbo you're going to get. Are you trying to get max HP or just slight increase? Either way you're going to want to get a new DP anyway as the stock one is going to be a significant hindrance. For max hp, most people have gone for GT3076R (I've heard GT3582R is a new option) but driveability will go to hell as boost will kick in later around +3500 rpm IIRC. Or if you want increased power but still keep driveability, some have gone for reworked K04's which flow better than stock. In between those 2 turbos you could go GT3071R for a balance of power/driveability. There are other options, but the GT's are probably the most common in the US. I don't know how many people in Aust have upgraded their's, I would probably say a handful at most. I would suggest you have a read of the US Mazdaspeed3 and 6 forums as this is not something you should do without a lot of research.
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  3. #3

    Default

    I am considering a replacement turbo not the hi-flow option, as for the dump pipe, I have an aftermarket one. I only have the std manifold not DP. I'm also hoping to make a new manifold in time. I want driveability but also more HP. So, nobody makes a bigger turbo that has the same exhaust bolt pattern yet?

  4. #4
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    Default

    Make sure you do some thorough research regarding upgrading the turbo, many people have popped motors with only mild increases in power.. Maybe sign up to some US-based forums such as Mazda3Forums, MsProtege, Mazdas247 etc.. Just a word of warning. Apparently the internals of these motors are not up to huge increases in boost without upgrades (forged rods & pistons etc, even then, some have still done damage).

    Cheers.

    Karl.

  5. #5

    Default

    I disagree with the comment on the internals, the popped engines I have read about were due to lean spots, not power being too high. IIRC whoosh was pushing ~380whp with stock internals, but he had the backing of CP-e, so you'd expect they were very meticulous when tuning. I have no doubt the MPS is capable of 400whp on stock internals.

  6. #6

    Default

    Its hard to say.. As much as I would love more power I dont want a) something with a significant increase in "boom" there goes my savings and b) kicks in too much later and hence poor driveability. Problem with Direct injection and high powered mazdas is we still know very little re: mechanical limits and the closed source Mazda ECU.

    I'll be leaning towards a re-worked stock K04, if anything, later in the year (when warranty expires).

    The aftermarket choices will give more bang for buck but I am pretty worried about the bang. These arent cheap and common '94 wrx's.

    The US forums (as already mentioned) are the place to be for the information you are after. Might also be an idea to enquire with ECU providers in OZ re: any aftermarket turbo's they may have dealt with.

  7. Default

    The rods in the MZR's are poo, you might want to look at streghtering the bottom end before you boost it pass stock trim.

  8. #8

    Default

    I am looking into a bigger turbo for the reason of more air at less boost, I don't want huge boost, 14-15 psi would be sufficient, so with a bigger turbo it will have more airflow at less boost, yes? I've had earlier model turbo cars (89 TX3 AWD, etc.) and wound extremely high boost into them (30+ psi), it was a rocket but very unpredictable due to the temp of the day vs night. This time around my car is a daily not a weekend warrior, so, reliabilty is the key, not outright power, although I still want more. Engine work is'nt out of the question, I'm just researching in advance. Thanks for the websites to try. I'll endeavor to learn a lot more before I go to the extreme and I will keep you all posted of my results. Troy. PS. boost isn't everything, it's overated.
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  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpsgarage View Post
    The rods in the MZR's are poo, you might want to look at streghtering the bottom end before you boost it pass stock trim.
    MPSgarage, what numbers are you pushing on your beastie? In anycase, its not the kW thats going to compress rods, its the Nm torque.

    I know mine is pushing close to 430 Nm with my setup, and thats 13% more than stock. Most engine components incorporate a ~15% safety factor, so fingers crossed I wont be popping anytime soon.

    Boost wise, when APC tuned my MPS with the Xede, they found the sweet spot was around 17-18psi. Anything over that was negative to the performance. US forums also suggest anything over 20psi was damaging the stock Hitachi turbos too.

    In anycase, there are very limited numbers of MPS's modded with bigger turbos in Australia which would definately make you a pioneer here. Best to look to the US forums and websites, maybe CES can help?

    It might also be a good time to change over to fully synthetic motor oil (mazda will have you on a very ordinary 50/50 mineral/synth oil if you havent asked for fully synth yet). Recommend Castrol Edge Sport 0W-40
    Last edited by Wardski; 05-01-2009 at 09:53 AM.

  10. Default

    We have two cars running all most the same mod's in testing. The only diff between them is one's at 17 psi & the other at 20 psi.
    Yes the second car has a higher dyno print out.
    The first engine in the test car was taken to the limit to see what & where would fail first.
    Yes they can handle high boost (for a little bit) But we came across other issues when we pushed it.
    Turbo up side will be great as long as the boost is not pushed through the roof. The only problem will be docking the MAF sensor & fuel. Depending on the turbo set up you go, some of the upgraded bolt on turbo's fit to the exhaust. But the inlet side is completely different. Their will require new inlet pipe work.

  11. #11

    Default

    Fabrication isn't an issue, It only sucks because I just fitted a CES dump pipe. I can fabricate almost anything, beit steel, alloy, wood or fibreglass, but sometimes I just don't want the hassle of having the car off the road for more than 2-3 days (incl. weekend) 'cause I drive it to work. The only thing that I think i can't do is tune the bloody thing. lol. something for me to learn I s'pose.

  12. #12

    Default

    if you do a turbo.. You need a computer and most prolly a fuel pump.

    Otherwise you find that your car will run way too rich..... Too much air in, too much air out and the stock ECU says... give it more fuel!!!!

    There are factory bolt on's, but i'm not sure what to put on.

  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpsgarage View Post
    The rods in the MZR's are poo, you might want to look at streghtering the bottom end before you boost it pass stock trim.
    Look at getting some Cosworth bits from the UK. Not cheap, but damn good quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    I am looking into a bigger turbo for the reason of more air at less boost, I don't want huge boost, 14-15 psi would be sufficient, so with a bigger turbo it will have more airflow at less boost, yes? I've had earlier model turbo cars (89 TX3 AWD, etc.) and wound extremely high boost into them (30+ psi), it was a rocket but very unpredictable due to the temp of the day vs night. This time around my car is a daily not a weekend warrior, so, reliabilty is the key, not outright power, although I still want more.
    Even with the correct trim and AR you might find that a larger turbo makes the car a pain in day to day driving as increased turbo lag and steep torque/power curves detract a little from driveability. You'll most definitely be looking at a hybrid turbo setup to get both the trim and AR right enough to keep nice power/torque curves. My car is stock, and I was spinning into and through 3rd when it rained the other day...

    Quote Originally Posted by lazydog View Post
    if you do a turbo.. You need a computer and most prolly a fuel pump.

    Otherwise you find that your car will run way too rich..... Too much air in, too much air out and the stock ECU says... give it more fuel!!!!

    Chances are the stock pump will crap itself anyway. I've been told around the 210-220 fwkw mark is where the stock item starts to break. Also I think you've got that the wrong way around. With increased volumetric air flow, your ECU, fuel pump and injectors won't be able to cope with the needed amount of fuel to keep the stoichiometric ratios correct.
    Last edited by Jeev; 05-01-2009 at 05:59 PM.

  14. #14

    Default

    obviously i wont do just the turbo, i'm going to lead up to it, next on the list is a piggy back and tune, then FMIC, then and only then will i do the turbo, its got to be a progressive build to keep it on the road. with good tuning the car should be able to produce the numbers and still retain the good driveability it has now. add in that a fuel pump etc will be in there somewhere too.

  15. #15
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    Default

    Don't forget to check that the injectors are up to the job =)

  16. #16

    Default

    Yeah i did... woops... Got it the wrong way around, but you knew what i was talking about...

    If your looking for an ECU that can gives you the most flexibility for our engines, I can't go past the Standback. Really worked wonders for me ESP with a custom tune.

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