Old unmarked vans to be converted to covert speed cameras

[armthehomeless]

OLD vans that have to be made roadworthy are set to be in the first fleet of covert speed cameras rolled out on Queensland roads.

The reconditioned wrecks will be part of a varied group of vehicles used in the stealth assault on speed.

Police will handpick their fleet and expect to turn an old van worth a few thousand dollars into a vehicle that could reap tens of thousands in fines.

Older vehicles must be restored to roadworthy status, rewired and fitted with airconditioning and powerful batteries. None of the covert cameras will bear police markings.

"If it's going to be a covert operation there will be no signage at all because that would defeat the purpose of it," Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson said yesterday.

"Covert would be truly covert and that would mean anywhere, anytime, any vehicle."

The Courier-Mail, in conjunction with police and the State Government, yesterday launched the "Brake the Habit" campaign aimed at reducing the road toll in 2010.

The Government has already announced plans to boost its anti-speeding strategy, and the first unmarked cameras will start snapping lead-footed motorists from as early as June.

Police have trialled three unmarked vehicles, taken from the existing speed camera fleet of 30 vans.

Police Minister Neil Roberts said up to 30 per cent of speed camera hours would be clocked by unmarked vans.

"If we are serious about reducing the road toll, we have to dramatically change driver behaviour," Mr Roberts said.

"Human factors account for over 90 per cent of road fatalities. Increasing the chance and uncertainty of detection is a powerful motivator in changing driver behaviour."

Queensland's road toll has been below 300 only once in 55 years. In 1998, 279 people died in the first full year speed cameras were deployed.

Queensland is following the Victorian method after that state brought its road toll to its lowest level since records began in 1952.

Victorian roads have been policed by covert cameras for more than 20 years. The cameras have been housed in vans, utes and sedans.

Victoria's top traffic cop said the devices had been one of the most significant factors in their reduced toll.

"We don't announce where they are or where they're going to be," Deputy Commissioner Ken Lay said.

"The research is very, very clear right across the world that if you drop the speed level, you cut the level of road trauma."

Mr Lay said Victoria's fixed cameras were rarely signed for motorists but a website listed full details of all camera locations.

Mr Atkinson conceded it was possible Queensland could move towards the Victorian model where all mobile speed cameras operated covertly.

"It's up to us to show in the course of this year and perhaps beyond that, what's working and what isn't working," Mr Atkinson said.

[Source: The Courier Mail]

[240MPS]

Wow.. To be honest any death is a loss, but comparing figures to over 50 years ago is no comparsion with the amount of cars today to back than.. Ratio of cars on the road today to deaths is no comparision....Everybody will have their opinions... I would like the break down to speeding/fatigue/drunks/etc .....

[Nirvandan]

This is BS!



I guess the 61.5 million they racked in fines last financial year isnt enough.

[bd581]

Don't like the money that is made from fines?
Easy solution to that, don't break the law

as for using old vans, this idea comes up all the time but nothing ever comes from it

I do remember sevral years ago travelling down the Hume hwy a car went past me and I swear there was a flash from the back of a beaten up Volvo wagon on blocks on the side of the road, next to it hidden away was a police car.

[YOU LOSE]

This is BS!



I guess the 61.5 million they racked in fines last financial year isnt enough.

+1 Drivers need to be educated and trained Driver Training Centres need to be an essential part of the licencing process if the police really wanted to reduce the road toll .LOW PERFORMANCE DRIVERS CAUSE DEATHS not High performance cars this is just another money grab .

Col

[bd581]

+1 Drivers need to be educated and trained Driver Training Centres need to be an essential part of the licencing process if the police really wanted to reduce the road toll .LOW PERFORMANCE DRIVERS CAUSE DEATHS not High performance cars this is just another money grab .

Col

While you may be correct, it's not what this is about.
It's about catching speeding drivers, they aren't setting up cameras to catch people in high performance cars.

Speeding is against the law, we all know it is, and we take the chance being caught, we all know what will happen if we get caught, so why complain if we do?
Only person to blame is yourself

[TD]

Don't like the money that is made from fines?
Easy solution to that, don't break the law

When they're also talking about significantly lowering the margin before fines kick in to less than ADR tolerances for speedometer accuracy it's quite frankly BS...not as bad as Victoria yet (63 in a 60 zone), but we're well on the way up here with stuff like this.

It's blatant revenue raising which has absolutely zero to do with increasing safety or reducing the road toll. That's where I and many others have a problem with the speed camera concept. I expect the Queensland road trauma levels (including deaths) to increase when this and their other speed camera related plans come into reality.

As an electorate, when are we going to stand up for ourselves and let our elected representatives know this sort of crap just isn't on? If Australian governments are serious about improving road safety there are plenty of other ways to do it properly, starting with driver training and correct road design/maintenance.

[Nirvandan]

It's blatant revenue raising which has absolutely zero to do with increasing safety or reducing the road toll. That's where I and many others have a problem with the speed camera concept. I expect the Queensland road trauma levels (including deaths) to increase when this and their other speed camera related plans come into reality.

Spot on!

[bd581]

And that is an issue to take up with the ADR rule makers and car manufacturers

however, it doesn't work like you say
you actual road speed is usually less than your indicated speed. So at an indicated 60km/h your probably doing about 58km/h in the average car. So to be booked for doing 64km/h your indicated speed would probably be closer to 66-67km/h

[kmh001]

Speed is a consequence, not a cause of road trauma. In the fullness of time the data will show that the emphasis on speed enforcement will have caused an increase in road trauma, as it has in the NT.

Speed cameras have nothing to do with road safety and everything to do with irresponsible bureaucrats ingratiating themselves with their political masters.

Unfortunately the speeding myth has been cleverly sold to the average person and surveys routinely show that over 50% of people support the use of speed camera's.

[bd581]

I agree that slowing people down is not the answer.

But to my way of thinking, the government needs to make money, and I'd much rather them do it by penalising those who break the law than increasing tax and penalising those who don't break the law

my only issue is where does all the money go?
I would have no problem if there was a noticable improvement in road quality, and I mean in country areas where the speeds are higher and roads are worse. Now THAT will reduce deaths on the road

Christmas eve a good friend of mines sister had an accident on a terribly rough road, no overtaking lanes for 80km, very narrow, lots of trucks and roos and 100km/h zone
new years eve she died
had the road been in much better condition this may not have happend

[Nexus]

"We don't announce where they are or where they're going to be," Deputy Commissioner Ken Lay said.
....
Mr Lay said Victoria's fixed cameras were rarely signed for motorists but a website listed full details of all camera locations."

So do you reveal the locations or not?
Mr Lay, you seem to be confused!

"The research is very, very clear right across the world that if you drop the speed level, you cut the level of road trauma."

Really? Well, I'd be very happy to see those scientific studies. NT has apparently seen an increase in trauma from their open road limit introduction. In the US "every K over is akiller" type propoganda was declared to be a "gross assault on the truth" whe it came to fixing roads an increasing speed limits. I've read of a 30% drop in trauma from this action. It's been a good 18months since I saw the article, but worth tryingto dig up....

I am happy to study the facts. I am not happy to accept such a statement of fact without studying. An assertion that this is the case does not make it so.

Mr Lay, you don't seem to realize that publishing the locations in full detail on a website is in fact revealing where they are going to be, is it not?

But hang on, you said you don't do that. But then you say you do.

Which is it? And if you can't tell the difference between we do and we don't, why should I believe your assertions on any other matter related to it?

And if you are so unclear on this, is it possible that you are just as unclear on many other "facts"?

Ultimately there is a certain insanity about presenting drivers with speedos with up to 10% error and then telling the driver they have to drive with 3% tolerances.

People who don't speed will be snapped not because there is any intent to speed but because they have a new car and are unfamiliar with the speedo error.
In such circumstances, I would rather see speed limits changed.

[kmh001]

I agree, my sister was killed in a car crash on a crappy bit of road near Wagga. She had just finished work and was still in her police uniform, so you can imagine what it was like for her police and ambulance colleagues when they attended the crash scene. The car she was a passenger in was travelling at high speed, but I don't blame speed. The primary cause of her death was the poor decision making and lack of competence of the guy driving the car, the condition of the road and the high speed were contributing factors, but not the primary cause.

I don't even like to refer to car crashes as accidents. To suggest it was accidental takes responsibility away from the person who was supposed to be in control of the vehicle and implies they were an innocent victim of circumstance. For the most part that's not the case, only a tiny proportion of crashes involve situations that were beyond the control of the driver and were truly accidental.

If a driver drives within the capability of both their car and themselves, and leaves sufficient margin for error, they can't crash. If the car in front stops suddenly after hitting an animal, or there's oil on the apex of a bend, whatever, untoward situations like this should not present a problem to a driver who is in control. Kid runs out from behind a tree, got plenty in reserve to deal with that too if you're doing it right.

Car crashes are rarely accidental. But while ever the voting public demand to have drivers licenses handed out to anyone who wants one, there will be trauma on the road and we will continue to pay a speed tax to irresponsible governments who want to be seen to be doing something about road safety while actually doing very little.

[Robbo]

stopping the speeder when they are speeding is the only way to make it safer, not sending them a "gotcha!" in the post

[Jmac]

Don't like the money that is made from fines?
Easy solution to that, don't break the law

as for using old vans, this idea comes up all the time but nothing ever comes from it

I do remember sevral years ago travelling down the Hume hwy a car went past me and I swear there was a flash from the back of a beaten up Volvo wagon on blocks on the side of the road, next to it hidden away was a police car.

I dont care about the money, I care about the points .

There is a difference between upholding the law and giving no flexability what so ever. Police cars should be MARKED. Id rather have more fixed speed cameras in trouble 'black spots' than this BS.

[240MPS]

Great reading, everybody has a point without turning it into a war lets keep it that way..... Look i nearly got done in a suburba street in narangba yesterday wasn't being stupid just looking at blocks for sale and got flashed by a car, i was over by 10k's in a deserted area, just would of been a shame to get a ticket... I've been driving for 28 years lost 9 points 3 points I took for the ex when we seperated and she was driving the car which was in my name , 2 points were for translink lanes to turn off down the road just because the lanes were stopped I thought 50 mtrs to my turn off in the translink lane should be ok because it wouldn't of effected anyone but they booked me , and I lost 2 points for doing 72k's in a 60 zone when i was doing 60k's i even ask the officer to drive the car and redo it and he refused,I bought this 1 yo statesman in the 80's and after getting my speedo checked it was out by 10k's, who's fault is it, it was a company directors car and it was the 1st owner?????? I disputed it and they told that I should have got my speedo checked when I bought it...

[YOU LOSE]

I dont care about the money, I care about the points .

There is a difference between upholding the law and giving no flexability what so ever. Police cars should be MARKED. Id rather have more fixed speed cameras in trouble 'black spots' than this BS.

IF I speed and get caught so be it .!!! but as a courier bussiness owner for 15years I think the point system is grossly unfair I DRIVE 10HRS A DAY all day my wife is on the road 1/2 hour per day I have 12 points so does she ,the law of averages are unfairly stacked against all professional drivers . Fine us yes taking our licences so we can't do our jobs not on .
Col

[Rooballer]

stopping the speeder when they are speeding is the only way to make it safer, not sending them a "gotcha!" in the post

That is the big problem with this approach, it does not immediately slow down anyone who is speading. You don't think about what you have done / modify your behaviour until the pic arrives in the mail. With overt speed cameras/radars, the message is loud and clear "SLOW DOWN NOW".

There is also talk of these cameras being on suburban streets, which I don't have an issue with, but again, being covert someone could drive pass one a number of times in a day, rack up a number of fines / points and all the while continue to speed around the nieghbourhood because they have not been made aware of what they are doing.

[bd581]

Wrong way nexus. The majority of cars speedos show a higher than actual speed. So if you are doing the correct speed as indicated there is no way you can get booked for speeding. If you take the 10% allowed speedo error plus the tolerance the police allow you get 13%.
Realisticly speedo error is not an excuse for speeding, and the police know this
I know that in my car at 100km/h the gps is showing about 91km/h

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------

Another thing
instead of thinking that speed is not the cause of crashing into a tree and all this won't lower the road toll (which I mostly agree with) think of this, no matter how good you are, or think you are or how good your car is, there are some things you can't control. What if a child runs across the road?
That 10km/h could be all the difference between life and death

I might drive a bit quick on the open roads, but only on my own, never in a urban area or anywhere where my actions could hurt another

[Street Road Laino]

This is purely revenue raising on behalf of the failing Bligh government. There is currently a big whole in the states revenue, what better way of helping this problem is to introduce more speed camera's.

I have no issue with FIXED & MARKED speed camera's in black spot area's that have statistics of accidents. I know myself are a lot more alert in these area's to avoid any photo's in the mail. I also wouldn't mind seeing these camera's installed at school zones.

Unmarked vehicles do absolutely nothing to reduce speed / accidents / death. These are the pure revenue raisers for the government. Spend the money on fixed camera's in populated area's or more Marked rolling patrols.

I would also like to see the revenue from actual speeding fines invested back into improving roads especially the known black spots. We all know that improving road conditions, will reduce the number of incidents that occur. Having said that, speed only related deaths is a small number. I would like to see the breakdown in fatalities that are related to Alcohol, Drugs, Phones / Stereo's and other distractions.

Also the fact that they are still using the "we want under X number of fatalities" is a joke. We all know from the 50's until now, the amount of vehicles on the road has gone up by thousands. Work out the percentage of deaths to number of cars on the road and their arguement is bust.

But we all know that nothing will change, more speed camera's will be introduced, speeds will be reduced but the road toll will increase and the number of licenses cut up will increase.

Forks to you Neil Roberts and Anna Bligh