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Thread: Coilover options ?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by pockets View Post
    The Pedders coilovers may not be as expensive but thats not to say that they are a bad product and you shouldnt get them cos they dont cost over $2000, thats really bad advice
    Price isnt the point here, feedback is.....over the years I have heard nothing but bad stuff about products like pedders..., except for 2 people ever and that includes you.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pockets View Post
    coilovers are fully adjustable, ride hight, stiffness, everything, you can make it just right depending on if your driving on a smooth race track or a bumpy road, springs and shocks are just there, if you dont like them bad luck cos theres nothing you can do about it, there bouncy and usually dont last as long, and if its a good product which I think the XAs are who cares if they cost $1280, $1600 or $4000, the price of things especially right now doesnt mean a great deal, some companys wont lower there price to sell products and others will.
    The Pedders coilovers may not be as expensive but thats not to say that they are a bad product and you shouldnt get them cos they dont cost over $2000, thats really bad advice
    No offence here, but koni yellows ARE adjustable, and I was merely summing up GSL's advice.. considering they work in the business I am sure they know more than both you and I.
    Also, just because they are fully adjustable it does not mean the car will handle better than a good spring/shock combo either...

    The pedders may be a good product.. but ive only ever heard negative feedback and people being shafted, if you are happy with them thats all that matters!
    Last edited by Jmac; 25-10-2009 at 05:36 PM.
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  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
    No offence here, but koni yellows ARE adjustable, and I was merely summing up GSL's advice.. considering they work in the business I am sure they know more than both you and I.
    Also, just because they are fully adjustable it does not mean the car will handle better than a good spring/shock combo either...

    The pedders may be a good product.. but ive only ever heard negative feedback and people being shafted, if you are happy with them thats all that matters!

    Funny you say that. I told Pockets exactly that line before he even had them fitted, almost to the word.
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  4. #64
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    question for you pockets,was that $1280 for the pedders xa's fitted price,if so thats great.which pedders was that at,and were you happy with their work?are they easy to adjust height/stiffness?sorry for so many questions but im interested in these

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpssylo View Post
    question for you pockets,was that $1280 for the pedders xa's fitted price,if so thats great.which pedders was that at,and were you happy with their work?are they easy to adjust height/stiffness?sorry for so many questions but im interested in these
    That price was because they stuffed up with just fitting springs and they car sat like and he was unhappy.
    Achievements
    2009 Jamboree Street Compact Winner
    Aust. Quickest and Fastest MPS
    12.3 seconds @ 111Mph.
    Proven over the Qtr mile

    Another Mazda 3 MPS - Almost fully bolted - Waiting for a turbo upgrade - The weekend hack.
    Toyota Yaris - Coilovers, rollcage, raceseats, harnesses, 18s - Also waiting for a turbo upgrade.
    2011 AWD Territory - White and Slightly lowered on 22s - The tow car.
    2011 RWD Territory - Black on black and slammed on 22s - The family transporter.

  6. Default

    The number 1 thing that defines handling and comfort is the damper. $1000 worth of Bilstein is $1000 worth of damper. $1500 worth of anodized, height adjustable, strut top'd coilover kit claiming to have usefull damer adjustment, is about $500 worth of damper. Regardless of anything else, if you think $500 worth of [adjustable or not] damper shoved in a fancy sleeved strut body is going to out perform $1000 worth of Bilstein, or similar, you're having a laugh.

    My experience is that no one lists that to that advice, because it doesn't fit with what they ideally want in their head, and they'll go and buy some cheap suspension, it will be hard, it will go low, and they'll think its the bee's knees, recommend it to everyone they know, the vicious cycle of cheapy suspension will keep on turning, and they'll never be wise to the fact of how bad their suspension really was because they never had something decent to compare it to.

    The majority of cheap coilovers also run ridiculously high spring rates to compesnsate for their complete lack of high speed* bump suppression, where a softer spring (like an Eibach), and better shock (like a Bilstein) would yield both better comfort AND handling.

    Pedders, like everyone else selling cheap coilovers, are in business to make a buck. I've got no opinion on them as I've never personally tried them, or pulled them apart to see what they're like, but for $2k, I would always take a quality spring/shock combo, and use the change on miscellaneous products, like alignment or bracing.

    * High speed, as in shaft acceleration. Not vehicle speed.

    ---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

    Not my words, but sums it up pretty nicely: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/for...post&p=4551383
    Last edited by gslrallysport; 26-10-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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  7. #67

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    that site is just like this site everyone has opinions and not facts, just try whatever you want and if you dont like them get something different, you wont find a brand that EVERYONE doesnt like

  8. #68
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    just a not to people. with coilovers make sure you get adjustable metal strut tops. as the standard plastic ones can break. with the teins i have broken two standard strut tops now. metal adj strut tops i ordered should arrive soon. they cheap to replace its just annoying though.

  9. #69
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    this thread is amazingly bitchy. how many of the guys on here are trying to flog their own product. don't hear anyone with the actual stuff in their cars telling the truth. all i hear is people bagging other products. this is not helpful at all.

    If i wanted to purchase a new suspension setup without spending too much how is most of this information (bitching) useful?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUFMPS View Post
    this thread is amazingly bitchy. how many of the guys on here are trying to flog their own product. don't hear anyone with the actual stuff in their cars telling the truth. all i hear is people bagging other products. this is not helpful at all.

    If i wanted to purchase a new suspension setup without spending too much how is most of this information (bitching) useful?
    Yeah i agree, alot of negative feedback about products but not alot of positive which is just making my decision alot harder
    Todd

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by gslrallysport View Post

    The majority of cheap coilovers also run ridiculously high spring rates to compesnsate for their complete lack of high speed* bump suppression, where a softer spring (like an Eibach), and better shock (like a Bilstein) would yield both better comfort AND handling.
    Can you give us a guide on spring rates we should be looking at please?

    Quote Originally Posted by remotegt View Post
    just a not to people. with coilovers make sure you get adjustable metal strut tops. as the standard plastic ones can break. with the teins i have broken two standard strut tops now. metal adj strut tops i ordered should arrive soon. they cheap to replace its just annoying though.
    I have the K-Sport which has the adj. metal strut tops. They work fine.

    The neg. of the K-Sport is that they don't have a bearing type setup in the top, meaning that when you turn the wheel, the spring has to slide on a hard, lubricated plastic thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TUFMPS View Post
    this thread is amazingly bitchy. how many of the guys on here are trying to flog their own product. don't hear anyone with the actual stuff in their cars telling the truth. all i hear is people bagging other products. this is not helpful at all.

    If i wanted to purchase a new suspension setup without spending too much how is most of this information (bitching) useful?
    Quote Originally Posted by 12Lead View Post
    Yeah i agree, alot of negative feedback about products but not alot of positive which is just making my decision alot harder
    Todd

    I've had King springs (low fronts, super low rears) fitted for some time and upgraded (or downgraded according to this thread) to the K-sport coil-overs. I've found the "cheap" coil-overs that I have purchased to be more superior to the Kings in every way. I have the car at exactly the height I want and also some adjustability in damper rates. I'm not gods gift to motor racing, but, from what I've had to what I have now is an upgrade. I can feel the difference, so, it must be a big enough difference.

    Sure, if someone has a great setup (springs and shocks), can they prove it?

    I like to do as much research as I can regarding all my mods. I don't even mind spending a few dollars. I would like to have an informed opinion to be able to prove myself. I think I'd like to try the Teins next, but, I can't really see the point unless I can see the value in the price vs improvement.

    We can all read forums, sure, but, most forums are about personal opinions. Dyno tests, shoot-outs, competitions etc. by manufacturers proving one product (generally their own) is better than another is good, to a point. We can read the manufacturers websites too. I'm not going to flog my own product, because I don't sell one.

    We'd all love to be able to buy the best, but, we all can't afford it, or, we don't want/need the best. I buy my mods because thats what I want.

    I'd like to thank all the neg feedback Seems like a good way to never get site sponsors to renew their sponship. I hope GSL stays for a while. This is some of the site support the MPS aftermarket scene needs. Good job guys. Now, if only our other sponsors could do the same.
    Achievements
    2009 Jamboree Street Compact Winner
    Aust. Quickest and Fastest MPS
    12.3 seconds @ 111Mph.
    Proven over the Qtr mile

    Another Mazda 3 MPS - Almost fully bolted - Waiting for a turbo upgrade - The weekend hack.
    Toyota Yaris - Coilovers, rollcage, raceseats, harnesses, 18s - Also waiting for a turbo upgrade.
    2011 AWD Territory - White and Slightly lowered on 22s - The tow car.
    2011 RWD Territory - Black on black and slammed on 22s - The family transporter.

  12. #72
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    Thank you Troy for your post, OzMPSclub.com is a place for us to share ideas, discuss improvements and most importantly provide feedback - positive and negative for the mods we've fitted to our pride and joy, or products we've purchased etc. Feedback is important, but being bitchy is not and is non productive. I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm and passion we share for our rides and encourage you all to continue the discussion

    Thanks also to gslrallysport, for having someone who is experienced and specialises in this field, is in my opinion worth their weight in gold by being an active forum member, not to mention a sponsor of the forum too.
    Thanks
    Chris
    R36 - Just like an MPS6 except with a growly V6

  13. #73
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    yeah im finding it hard to know which way to go in terms of setup.at the moment all i have is the king springs and they were already a improvement over stock.iam considering the coilover option or just getting a decent shock,but all this thread has done is confuse the hell out of me.alot of people don't like king springs but at the end of the day they were an improvement regardless i thought.unlike alot of people on here,i haven't got $$$$$ to spend to go through different shocks/springs to find the ones that are the best for me.this is always the case i find when talking mods to people,everyone has a different opioion about things and you end up more confused then what you started with.i appreciate everyone's opinon but people shouldn't bag other people's choices.please don't take this the wrong way people,just my thought on the subject cheers!

  14. #74
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    For me, I had King springs for 12 months, which were ok and served their purpose (obtaining a lower ride height) then the opportunity came along to get some Cusco Comp-S coilovers second hand. The improvement for me is compared to the Kings on stock shocks, the bump absorption is better with the Cusco's and the handling is much better overall - flat and a marked improvement in road holding. Though on bad roads, the ride is hard and you feel everything, smooth roads are an absolute delight though! FYI the spring rates on the Cusco's are Front 11kg, rear 6.5kg.
    R36 - Just like an MPS6 except with a growly V6

  15. Default

    I've just re-read what I wrote, and it certainly was a little on the bitchy side wasn't it

    Sorry guys, I had a bad day here at work for various reasons (thankfully all work related, and can be fixed, nothing personal), and didn't mean to come across so short.

    The guts of it is, yes we sell stuff, yes it's nice to sell it. Would we rather see someone happy, than make a small buck. Definitely, and only last week I talked somebody out of a suspension product we sell for his rally car, onto one we don't, as we felt it was more suitable for his application...

    The whole cheap coilover thing just annoys me, as it's just a band wagon everyone has gotten on. It's funny, because any shock that supports a spring is a 'coilover'. The new definition of coilover is height adjustability, and sometimes damper adjustability... both of which you can get without buying a 'coilover kit'. You can get height from threaded tubes, and damper from a Koni. Personally I'd still take a non-Adjustable Bilstein over an adjustable Koni.

    At the end of the day, as has been said, get what makes you happy. If you're less about outright performance, and more about getting the ride height and look you want, a sub $2k coilover kit may be more than enough for your. Conversely, if you're more about handling, then IMHO, I would always take a quality shock and spring combo. There may be exception, and the odd coilover kit that's up to the job, but in the VAST MAJORITY, like the D2's, G4's, K Sports, XYZ Racing's etc, this is simply not the case.

    Tein would be the borderline, at least if you buy a set imported by Fulcrum you've got at least some sort of aftermarket service and warranty, and there is plenty of coilovers worth their dough. DMS is the one we've chosen to stock as it's made in Australia, and everything to do with it is done here, but there's also Reigers, Ohlins, Sachs etc. and a host of Japanese brands which will be available for the MPS's, alot of which will be decent.

    All I'm saying is just have a bit of reality check with what you're spending your money on. I hope I've stressed the point that if a coilover kit is the same price as a known shock/spring combo, the damper inside will generally be of inferior quality/performance.

    Cheers,
    Greg
    - GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 -
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  16. #76
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    I will see you guys soon about some DMS...gotta save just a little more .....bye bye new rims lol

  17. #77

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    Wow, this one certainly went nuts!

    I do agree to a large degree in what Greg says, and I do actually send people I know to GSL for quotes on stuff. Up until recently, I had 3 cars in the garage (now Greg will know who I am) which had aftermarket suspension.

    6MPS with the Tein SS, MX5 with Bilsteins and Eibach springs, Detomaso Charade with Koni yellows and King springs on adjustable collars. I also had a TypeR Integra with the Tein SS, as well as another MX5 with the TeinSS. Not that I particularly love the TeinSS, its just that I was their first car in each of those cases and they needed a car to actually test their product on. Testament to them though, they weren't afraid to change damping rates and spring rates to get something that worked OK on road tyres.

    For a road car, I was happy with Fulcrum's work. This does not make a good or great competition car, though they work fine for say 5 laps of racetracks. After that, the twin tubes just don't seem to cut it. I would never run a rally car on TeinSS, nor would I on Koni yellows. The Charade had them when I got the car. My current MX5 has Bilsteins that have been revalved with about 50% to 100% more fast rebound, and a touch more fast bump to cope with its lack of travel. With off the shelf Eibachs (its on std collars, so not a coilover collar and I can't use small ID springs) with relatively low spring rates, the car is a lot nicer than a stock car but stil suffers from lack of travel. The same car on the TeinSS just seems to have a lot more travel inbuilt and is a bit more compliant on rebound so it feels a bit nicer. But on smoother tarmac, the Bilstein/Eibach combo gives nothing away.

    For a road car, I have nothing but praise for the TeinSS on the MPS. Very comfortable on the Fulcrum spec and that gives it better handling. Add to that really good amount of travel (droop and compression). I have driven quite a few competition cars on MCA/Proflex/DMS (all in 50-55mm bodies) and they are all fantastic at full noise, but they are the kind of cars that reward commitment and are quite ordinary if being tentative. I have also driven quite a lot of cheap aftermarket threaded body adjustable coilovers and there are some good and some woeful. Comes down to how well they matched springs to damping rates to me.

    I would definitely consider a good shock/spring combo for any road car, again as long as its a well matched spring to shock combo (ie Koni yellow or FSD and H&R spring on a VW Golf works really well and I would see no point in spending more). However, if I were to have to spend my money on revalving the shocks then I would look at what else is around. Also, remember that there is quite a lot of difference between a caged rally car and a road car when it comes to body flex etc, similarly good comp tyres vs road tyres.

    For Brisbanites, if you want a ride in a TeinSS shod 6MPS, just holler.

  18. #78
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    Yep thats why i have been steering away from alot of the Japanese import suspension, and swaying towards Teins (Fucrum) as they have been set up for Aussie roads, i don't wan't a hardcore bone jarring track weapon (i wouldn't have picked a 6mps if i did),
    just height adjstable, firmer ride that i can do the odd track day with. As good as the DMS are (and i'm sure the're brilliant)they are probably wasted on my meagre driving ability

  19. #79

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    I had ISC Coilovers in my S14 200sx. Found them to be good. Very Stiff with the 8kg 6kg springs in them but nothing failed, had them for about a year i think. (sold the car so dont know how they are going now)
    Paid $1400 for the set of 4 brand new. Fully adjustable, front camber adjust etc etc.

    The damper although was infact maybe a tad over rated. It was good, Nothing bad but just could have been a tad better for the spring rates.

    For the price, i was happy


    Cheers

    Current: 2002 Nissan S15 200SX SPEC R
    Previously: 2006 Mazda 6 MPS ,MY00 WRX CLUB SPEC EVO IV Hatch ,97' Nissan S14A 200sx, Nissan R34 GT-T, Nissan S12 Silvia

  20. #80
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    this is much better now.

    i joined on here to get all sorts of advise and hopefully give a little too.
    I agree with the coilovers not being as good as a package of the same cost. i think we all know that but it's easy to get caught up in the hype of modding the car. think BOV's, SRI's, CAI's. etc

    For my needs I believed the coilover would give me the best of both worlds as I could make it soft when driving long distance with the mrs and i could crank it up for short blasts around town.

    As some people know I have the pedders xa coilovers. If anyone in metro melbourne is thinking of purchasing new stuff and wants to know how these feel I might be able to arrange something.

    Andre

    (by the way they are quite soft in comparison to other options in my opinion)

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