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Thread: ALL aftermarket wheel and tyre fitments 225 or wider NEED guard rolled on MPS3

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    Default ALL aftermarket wheel and tyre fitments 225 or wider NEED guard rolled on MPS3

    Ok everyone, I've written a bit about aftermarket wheel fitments before and people have taken offence when I've told them that their 225's on +45 fitment need the guards rolled.

    Today I have the proof that this is the case, as my 225 at +48 have just rubbed for the first time in 6 months - it's trivial but it proves that just looking and guessing how much clearance there is is not satisfactory. Mine calculate as having 0.5mm clearance, but of course in the real world there is sidewall flex. When you have a clearance of -2.5mm (+45 offset), well then you are going to eventually see that a chunk of your tyre goes missing. It might not happen in two years of driving, but it will eventually happen unless you drive like miss daisy.

    If my fitment can rub, 99% of all aftermarket wheel and tyre fitments on the MPS3 will need the rear guards rolled to be legal, mine are being done (and the very slight damage repaired) ASAP

    Those of you at +45 have tyres that are sitting a further 3mm outboard than mine, so if mine can rub/cut/catch and bend a guard lip, you can be dead certain that yours WILL, and that in the event that they rub you will have a much more severe contact than mine.

    Pics later....wait till you see where it rubbed, too. Not where you'd expect I think. I thought I'd scraped a rim when it happened, had a squiz when I stopped and was surprised to see the rims totally unmarked, at which point I noticed a bent guard lip. The cause was driving over a modest sized rock near the kerb. Not a big rock, just big enough to cause some sidewall flex. Not even big enough to notice a significant suspension bump.
    Last edited by Nexus; 07-08-2009 at 11:54 PM.

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    Nexus,
    Would there be any dramas with fitting wider tyres to the stock rims?

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    Nope Evil i have 225's which is as wide as you can go on the stock rims With no issues a all

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    If you don't know what offset your rims are , is there any way of finding out by looking anywhere on the rim itself. Only reason I ask is that when u bought my rims I forgot to ask them wat the offset was and I called them up and they told me there are 2 offsets for them +35 and +45. They're an 8 inch wide rim and also running 225's
    Last edited by STEALTH_MPS; 07-08-2009 at 03:31 PM.

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    The offset will be stamped somewhere on the back of the wheel face.

    re: 35 vs 45 offset, yours will be +45, as the +35 would be sticking out from under the guards quite a long way...and not legal
    at 8" wide, you are at much higher risk of this happening. I'm on 7.5" wide.

    re: OEM rims and 225, I wouldn't expect any issues there as the tyre would need to flex an additional 4.5mm than mine did for the same thing to happen. There is about 5mm clearance with 225 on stock rim. 215 stockers show approx 10mm clearance.
    Last edited by Nexus; 07-08-2009 at 03:40 PM.

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    Would it happen to a non lowered car as well or not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by STEALTH_MPS View Post
    Would it happen to a non lowered car as well or not?
    Mine's not lowered, so...yep.

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    I have 235/40/18 tyres on 7.5" wide rims, as well as Cobb springs & have NEVER had any rubbing issues...........YET.( maybe it has to do with the 40 series tyres )
    Last edited by AD07; 07-08-2009 at 05:15 PM.

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    Hey AD07 (sorry off topic) how do you find the Cobb springs?

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    I'm on 18 x 8 +45 and 225/40/18 tyres with Road Magnet springs and have never rubbed. None of my guards have been rolled. I think it would have to be a pretty extreme bump to make it rub - I've had a car full of people and still no rubbing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chipped View Post
    Hey AD07 (sorry off topic) how do you find the Cobb springs?
    Cobbs are great, not too harsh at all. Probabaly dropped around 1 - 1.5" all round. Money well spent. Any lower would be a constant drama, pot holes, speed humps, car parks etc would be a pain in the a$$.
    Last edited by AD07; 07-08-2009 at 07:07 PM.

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    im on +42 18x7.5 with 225/40/18 and Road Magnet springs also, no rubbing so far and ive had them fitted over a year!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AD07 View Post
    I have 235/40/18 tyres on 7.5" wide rims, as well as Cobb springs & have NEVER had any rubbing issues...........YET.( maybe it has to do with the 40 series tyres )
    Yes, 40 series would be slightly less prone to it. I'm on 45 series here. Would vary between tyre manufacturers too.

    at +45 offset, if the same thing happened on 40 series profile I'd expect potential for the same damage as mine, which is to say trivial.
    at +45 offset, same event on 45 series profile I'd expect to take a good sized piece out of your tyre.
    at +42, or on 8" rims...damage would escalate to potentially a blowout in a worst case scenario.

    oh yes, that's right. Pics...
    Last edited by Nexus; 07-08-2009 at 10:21 PM.

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    Two pics - the bent guard lip, and the tyre with paint transferred onto it and a thin shaving of rubber gone. I haven't taken a pic of it, but there's a second spot where it's shaved less but put a very narrow, very shallow groove into the rubber.

    Looking at where that's shaved rubber, I'm thinking 40 series wouldn't escape altogether either.

    haha she's pretty filthy at the moment.

    Regarding sidewall flex, I was turning right with enough G there'd be a little flex going already on a crap intersection that has some significant undulations, was close to the kerb at the apex (concrete island) there was a rock sitting just past the apex, and the drivers side rear bumped the rock...
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    Last edited by Nexus; 08-08-2009 at 12:06 AM.

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    Talking MPSMad has 235/40/18's

    I have Kuhmo 235/40/18 on my stock rims and they work brilliantly. I have that much rubber on the road that she doesn't 'break away' any more when i flog her in first and second!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MPSMad View Post
    I have Kuhmo 235/40/18 on my stock rims and they work brilliantly. I have that much rubber on the road that she doesn't 'break away' any more when i flog her in first and second!!!
    Your clearance calculates as 0mm. You're 0.5mm closer to the guards than me so I don't think you'd be immune although the narrow rim might help on the rubbing front.

    I think you'll find if you check kuhmo's specs that they specify a minimum 8" rim width for 235/40, which leaves you with an unroadworthy fitment.

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    Further confirmed rubbing. Did 600K over the weekend with 4 crates of 12" records, and amp, decks, moxer, etc for cargo - about as heavy a load as you are likely to carry.

    I was very alert for indications of rub, and confirmed that without the aid of an inconveniently placed rock to drive over and distort the sidewall, it just barely rubs at the extremes of suspension travel. My passenger side rear guard lip has a similar but far smaller bend in it in the same location. Can feel it but not obvious to the eye.

    It's obviously just barely touching because the other tyre has not a mark on it, no sign whatsoever that it rubs apart from the tiny dimple in the rear guard. In fact neither does the tyre I found paint on once it's washed off so there's not much in it.

    So I would suggest that at +45 offset, 225/40 fitments are definitely at risk of the rock/sidewall flex event, but possibly would not rub otherwise. But they would be very very close. Close enough that it is very advisable to roll the guards for all overtracked (offset lower than +52.5) aftermarket fitments 225 or wider.

    The only lower than stock offset with a chance of avoiding that is +50. Very very rare. Enkei tuning do a 18x7.5+50 that's the same weight as stock and looks good...Or Enkei Racing RPM2 another example
    Last edited by Nexus; 09-08-2009 at 10:17 PM.

  18. #18

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    hmm was going to ask about the 225/40 as i wasnt sure which mine were. took the wheels off today to give them a good cleaning and checked the offset which was stamped on the inside of the wheel well. Might think about rolling the guards next. Would you normally do just the rears or both front and rear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by STEALTH_MPS View Post
    hmm was going to ask about the 225/40 as i wasnt sure which mine were. took the wheels off today to give them a good cleaning and checked the offset which was stamped on the inside of the wheel well. Might think about rolling the guards next. Would you normally do just the rears or both front and rear?
    I've never heard of the fronts rubbing, although obviously they would if the tyre got close enough. I'd suggest that only the rears need rolling as long as the offset and tyre width is fairly sensible. The front have a bit more clearance and are already rolled a little. You'd almost need to flare the rear guards before you do anything up front.
    Last edited by Nexus; 10-08-2009 at 09:04 PM.

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    i have a pair of kumho ku36 225/45/r18 on the stock rims at the rear of an mps3

    tyres are inflated at 31psi when cold and the tyres rub - the tyres are inflated to that psi because any higher, and the tyres do no have enough contact with the road. right now, the whole inside shoulder is in contact, but the final 1" of the outside should does not touch, and you can see where the whiskers are, even after 1000km

    it doesnt rub the top of the guard, but more so at a point about 4 inches above the top of the side skirt - it rubs when going over those sharp, triangle type speed humps, and when going around the circular down ramps in car parks

    i am sure it rubs under different scenarios, but since its only about 5mm (vertical, and looks like someone is drawing on the tyre) of rubbing around the outside circumference, the sidewall should be safe because its really rubbing on the tread, but its just obvious because the guard is bent

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