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Thread: Opticoat vs. GTechniq C1

  1. #1
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    Default Opticoat vs. GTechniq C1

    Hi guys,

    Just wanted to ask what everyone thought about Opticoat vs. other products on the market like GTechniq C1...

    Looking at doing it for my mum's new Audi this weekend but getting mixed reviews between the two... The argument is that although Opticoat offers lifetime warranty, in theory you can argue that the product is "inferior" as it will keep coming off... As opposed to GTechniq that offers 3 year warranty meaning that it's product is better??

    I dunno lol asked two detailers and they all sided on one or the other...

    Thoughts or discussions welcome!
    Current:
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    Delivery/ Install: HKS EVC6/ JBR: Oil Catch Can


  2. #2
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    Hi Mate,

    Quote Originally Posted by 3MPSPWR View Post
    The argument is that although Opticoat offers lifetime warranty, in theory you can argue that the product is "inferior" as it will keep coming off... As opposed to GTechniq that offers 3 year warranty meaning that it's product is better??
    Not sure who told you this but it is not correct. Opti-Coat does not dissipate (come off) over time. It can only be removed by abrasive polishing. There are guys in the US who are well into year four of their original Opti-Coat application without the coating showing any signs of giving up.

    Both of these coatings are quite a different to each other in composition. Opti-Coat is a ceramic polymer coating. C1, like many other coatings (C.Quartz, Ceramic Pro, 22PLE, Modesta etc) is a glass based coating.

    A chemistry-based comparison was recently explained by Dr David Ghodoussi, founder of Optimum Polymer Technologies (yes his doctorate is in chemistry )

    The argument is not about bond energy but rather how inert the bonds are (e.g. Sodium Chloride has a bond energy that is over three times Si-O bond, however, it readily breaks down and dissolves in water). Si-O bond is readily hydrolized in the presence of acids or alkali. Therefore, most cleaners whether they are alkaline or acidic as well as environmental contaminants that contain acids such as bird droppings, bug splatter, acid rain, etc. will break down silica based coatings. That is also why most silica based coatings require use of boosters or reapplication.

    The Si-C bond however is not affected by acids or bases since there is no catalytic mechanism to break it down. Therefore, silicon carbide chemistry is not affected by the environmental contaminants. Furthermore, Si-O bonds are prone to degradation by the enzymes in bird dropping and bug splatter whereas Si-C is not.

    The proof is seen everyday since with Opti-Coated cars (Si-C based chemistry), the protection is permanent and the bond does not hydrolize or break down with cleaners or environmental contaminants and the paint is not damaged over time. On the other hand, Silica based coatings will break down over time and have a much shorter life expectancy and either acidic or alkaline chemicals can penetrate and damage the paint underneath.
    In other words, Ceramic polymer coatings, such as Opti-Coat, are not prone to attack from acids and contaminants. Glass-based coatings are and will degrade over time due to their chemical make-up.

    So hopefully that puts to bed any idea that Opti-Coat wears off.

    So why are there more glass coatings on the market than ceramic polymer coatings then? The reason is simple. Looks. Glass coatings contain silica, which helps enhance surface gloss. Take two normal cars and apply both types of coating to each and the glass coating will appear more glossy. I call this artificial gloss, as there was no real work (paint correction) done to achieve it.

    There is however a problem. Over time the silica in glass coatings will leech out, as will any artificial gloss along with it. This is why I have an issue with detailers who rely on coatings to provide additional gloss instead of properly finishing down a surface to achieve lasting gloss within the paint itself and then using the coating to merely lock in that gloss and protect it. Gloss like that will last as long as the coating itself. Not the silica with it.

    Have a look at the thread on the white R35 GTR I did a short time ago. This was coated with 22PLE (glass coating) at the owners request. In this detail I very specifically documented gloss readings and pre-coating photos to establish the levels of gloss in the paint before the silica gloss-enhancing coating was applied.

    http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/detai...gtr-white.html

    99.9% of gloss achieved on this car was via the paint correction. The coating added no apparent additional gloss through visual inspection. Had I been relying on the coating to supply the bulk of the gloss it would have dropped off within 12 months.


    As per Dr G's quote above, Opti-Coat also has a much higher resistance to chemicals than glass-based coatings. Meaning that it is better able to shed off attacks without it damaging the coating.

    Bird poo is a perfect example of this.

    I had a customer who's solid black Mazda RX8 I corrected and Opti-coated a few months ago. In late Nov he sent me a photo of what looked like bird poo etching on his roof sill. He was understandably distraught as he'd just spent a lot of money with me getting his car just right.

    Here is the photo, taken just after he'd washed the car.





    Pretty nasty and obvious, especially on a solid black car which shows up every imperfection

    My advice to him, as strange as it sounds, was to do nothing. Continue to wash the car as normal and watch over the next few weeks what happens. He was understandibly skeptical but heeded my words. My last words to him on the phone were "send me an updated photo in a few weeks"

    Approx three weeks later and four or so washes, he sent me the following update





    Opti-Coat had shed the residual lime in the bird poo and the "etching" was gone. It in fact wasn't etching as the Opti-Coat did not allow it to penetrate. Standard clear coat or glass coatings would not have been able to do this. Both would have permanently etched requiring paint correction.


    This highlights a couple of differences between the two types of coatings. Congratulations if you made it this far. You've done very well lol! Hope this helped
    Last edited by Caffeine Fiend; 04-02-2014 at 02:39 PM.
    Caff Mobile Mk1 - 2010 Aluminum Gen II | 2XS SRI | H&R Lowered Springs | cpe 75 Duro Engine Mount | Whiteline Rear Swaybar | Moog "Problem Solver" Rear Endlinks | 3M Carbon Black Tint | Lakin Custom Plates | Opti-Coat Paint Protection | Paint Correction by Me - SOLD

    Caff Mobile Mk2 - 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe - Sapphire Black Metallic | Stock....for now

  3. #3
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    Suddenly I really want opticoat...
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
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    Best explanation for anything ever!

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    Holy cow Dan! Dat kid is goooood!

  6. #6
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    I made it this far! Read the whole thing! Yes, putting that into perspective i suppose... Well i got told by the detailer that GTechniq apparently is a ceramic coating that seem more durable (he was telling me about some experiment where they had opticoat vs. GTechniq in a tube opened to air and apparently opticoat "evaporated" over time where as the GTech actually formed like this layer etc etc- i kinda lost track) Which is why i'm now all confused, as he reckons out of all the years he has been doing it he found opticoat to be less durable than GTech, but asking the second detailer he said the opposite... :S Which is why i'm not sure which to go with now haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeine Fiend View Post
    Hi Mate,



    Not sure who told you this but it is not correct. Opti-Coat does not dissipate (come off) over time. It can only be removed by abrasive polishing. There are guys in the US who are well into year four of their original Opti-Coat application without the coating showing any signs of giving up.

    Both of these coatings are quite a different to each other in composition. Opti-Coat is a ceramic polymer coating. C1, like many other coatings (C.Quartz, Ceramic Pro, 22PLE, Modesta etc) is a glass based coating.

    A chemistry-based comparison was recently explained by Dr David Ghodoussi, founder of Optimum Polymer Technologies (yes his doctorate is in chemistry )



    In other words, Ceramic polymer coatings, such as Opti-Coat, are not prone to attack from acids and contaminants. Glass-based coatings are and will degrade over time due to their chemical make-up.

    So hopefully that puts to bed any idea that Opti-Coat wears off.

    So why are there more glass coatings on the market than ceramic polymer coatings then? The reason is simple. Looks. Glass coatings contain silica, which helps enhance surface gloss. Take two normal cars and apply both types of coating to each and the glass coating will appear more glossy. I call this artificial gloss, as there was no real work (paint correction) done to achieve it.

    There is however a problem. Over time the silica in glass coatings will leech out, as will any artificial gloss along with it. This is why I have an issue with detailers who rely on coatings to provide additional gloss instead of properly finishing down a surface to achieve lasting gloss within the paint itself and then using the coating to merely lock in that gloss and protect it. Gloss like that will last as long as the coating itself. Not the silica with it.

    Have a look at the thread on the white R35 GTR I did a short time ago. This was coated with 22PLE (glass coating) at the owners request. In this detail I very specifically documented gloss readings and pre-coating photos to establish the levels of gloss in the paint before the silica gloss-enhancing coating was applied.

    http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/detai...gtr-white.html

    99.9% of gloss achieved on this car was via the paint correction. The coating added no apparent additional gloss through visual inspection. Had I been relying on the coating to supply the bulk of the gloss it would have dropped off within 12 months.


    As per Dr G's quote above, Opti-Coat also has a much higher resistance to chemicals than glass-based coatings. Meaning that it is better able to shed off attacks without it damaging the coating.

    Bird poo is a perfect example of this.

    I had a customer who's solid black Mazda RX8 I corrected and Opti-coated a few months ago. In late Nov he sent me a photo of what looked like bird poo etching on his roof sill. He was understandably distraught as he'd just spent a lot of money with me getting his car just right.

    Here is the photo, taken just after he'd washed the car.





    Pretty nasty and obvious, especially on a solid black car which shows up every imperfection

    My advice to him, as strange as it sounds, was to do nothing. Continue to wash the car as normal and watch over the next few weeks what happens. He was understandibly skeptical but heeded my words. My last words to him on the phone were "send me an updated photo in a few weeks"

    Approx three weeks later and four or so washes, he sent me the following update





    Opti-Coat had shed the residual lime in the bird poo and the "etching" was gone. It in fact wasn't etching as the Opti-Coat did not allow it to penetrate. Standard clear coat or glass coatings would not have been able to do this. Both would have permanently etched requiring paint correction.


    This highlights a couple of differences between the two types of coatings. Congratulations if you made it this far. You've done very well lol! Hope this helped
    Current:
    CP-e: Xcel Nano Intake/ Nviscid TIP/ TMIC/ HPFP/ Stage 2 REM/xFlex Driv/ Pass EM 75/ UR 3" Turbo- Back Exhaust/ RichTune Custom/ HKS SSQV Typ 3/ DBA 4000 Rotors/ Remsa Pads/ Tein SS Coilovers/ Whiteline (F&R) Sway Bars/ AutoExe: Turbo Suction Kit/ Strut Tower Bar/ Floor Cross Bar/ Lower Arm Bar (F&R)/ Sports Steering Wheel/TWM: A6 Leopard Gearknob/ Solid Base Bushings/ Work: 11R-FT 18X8.5/ RS Lock Nuts/ CP-e Tow Plate/ Yokohama AD08
    Delivery/ Install: HKS EVC6/ JBR: Oil Catch Can


  7. #7
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    And i also got told its manufacture dependent? Like Audi etc will be different to other German rivals so one that may work may not work as well.... So now i've been thrown that equation lol

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3MPSPWR View Post
    I made it this far! Read the whole thing! Yes, putting that into perspective i suppose... Well i got told by the detailer that GTechniq apparently is a ceramic coating that seem more durable (he was telling me about some experiment where they had opticoat vs. GTechniq in a tube opened to air and apparently opticoat "evaporated" over time where as the GTech actually formed like this layer etc etc- i kinda lost track) Which is why i'm now all confused, as he reckons out of all the years he has been doing it he found opticoat to be less durable than GTech, but asking the second detailer he said the opposite... :S Which is why i'm not sure which to go with now haha

    C1 is glass-based, not ceramic polymer. Here is a link to the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for C1 from G-Techniq's own website: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...,d.dGI&cad=rja

    One of the main ingredients is Alkoxysiloxane, a member of the siloxane group, which is a silcone dioxide (SI-O)....as per Dr G's quote above.

    This can be again proven by the fact that C1 applicators harden after use. A ceramic polymer does not function in that way. Glass coatings do.


    Quote Originally Posted by 3MPSPWR View Post
    And i also got told its manufacture dependent? Like Audi etc will be different to other German rivals so one that may work may not work as well.... So now i've been thrown that equation lol
    I don't understand what you mean here? What is manufacture dependant? That has nothing to do with it. I'm sorry, that's just rubbish. You're being fed nonsense mate. No disrespect.

    The only time a coating (any coating) will potentially have issues is if

    a) it is being applied to single stage paints (eg old acrylics on classic cars and cars from the 80s that do not have a clear-over-base type paint)

    or

    b) if the car has clear coat failure

    or

    c) the surface it's being applied to has not been properly prepared (ie all polish oils have been removed and the panel is completely bare)

    These coatings are designed for modern clear-over-base paints. They are designed to act as a guard for the clear coat, just as clear coats were invented to act as guards for colour coat
    Last edited by Caffeine Fiend; 04-02-2014 at 04:25 PM.
    Caff Mobile Mk1 - 2010 Aluminum Gen II | 2XS SRI | H&R Lowered Springs | cpe 75 Duro Engine Mount | Whiteline Rear Swaybar | Moog "Problem Solver" Rear Endlinks | 3M Carbon Black Tint | Lakin Custom Plates | Opti-Coat Paint Protection | Paint Correction by Me - SOLD

    Caff Mobile Mk2 - 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe - Sapphire Black Metallic | Stock....for now

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3MPSPWR View Post
    And i also got told its manufacture dependent? Like Audi etc will be different to other German rivals so one that may work may not work as well.... So now i've been thrown that equation lol
    Hi There

    You probably know that we are the Opti-Coat distributor, so what I have to say on the topic holds about as much weight as the BS this detailer has fed you.

    The "manufacturer dependent" thing is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've heard so far. As far as durability is concerned, the coatings from GTechniq aren't even our best rivals. GTechniq themselves admit it's chemical resistance is limited.

    All the above said, even GTechniq is a great product compared to what was available 4-5 years ago. Just don't expect much from it once you start approaching the 12 month mark. Opti-Coat on the other hand looks like this:


  10. #10
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    I can vouch for opticoat. 2 years on, the occasion bird crap, tree sap, dirty rain sitting on paint for days, and the opticoat still shows no sign of wear, 'evaporation', and still beads water off like a freshly detailed car.

    Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    Sorry to hack this thread guys LoL but @ZAS ,can u check ur inbox pls because I PM u from last week and still no reply and @Caffeine Fiend ,when u gonna have a trip to gold coast mate :P ?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Sorry to hack this thread guys LoL but @ZAS ,can u check ur inbox pls because I PM u from last week and still no reply and @Caffeine Fiend ,when u gonna have a trip to gold coast mate :P ?
    When you pay for @Caffeine Fiend s plane ticket, and tickets for all the theme parks ;-)
    I got your back Dan. Lol
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisturbedDave View Post
    When you pay for @Caffeine Fiend s plane ticket, and tickets for all the theme parks ;-)
    I got your back Dan. Lol
    HA HA HA, definitely need to think about that mate :P.
    Maybe I can ask all QLD member here to do a group discount to invite him into QLD here ( just saying)
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  14. #14

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    @CelestialSpool knows someone great up here. Kym from detail evolution.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissJody View Post
    @CelestialSpool knows someone great up here. Kym from detail evolution.
    Interesting... This thread is making me really want opticoat...
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

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  16. #16

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    It really makes a difference. Have a look at mine and @CelestialSpool's car side by side and the color on his is much deeper might not be as obvious in pics as it is in real life.

  17. #17

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    Have you done a machine buff on yours, miss jody?

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

  18. #18

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    Not recently about 18 months ago

  19. #19
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    I think the best testimony would have to come from Brad @Yeldarb ...going on 4 years now since opti-coat treatment and still going strong right?

  20. #20
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    Hmmm might have to give Kym a call...car needs some loving

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