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Thread: Tuning Round 1!

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaneski View Post
    Gen 2 uses longer ratio in all gears, yours being gen 1 with smaller tyres you are close to 3rd gear, at 80kph in 3rd im around 3000rpm mine is, yours is a quite a bit more
    i gather
    Yeah according to the log, 80km/h in 3rd is around 4100rpm
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

    CS SRI ll CS TIP ll CS AB ll 2XS SSP ll 2XS FMIC ll SURE Anchors ll Enkei RPF1's 17x9 +45 ll Lamin-X Fog Tint ll DBA T3 4000 series ll Remsa pads ll Braided lines
    CP-E S2 RMM ll Hankook RS3 235/40/17 ll Forge V1 BPV ll Whiteline RSB ll AutoTech HPFP
    ll Spin-on Conversion ll Rear Diffuser
    DGR Coilovers ll LED Replacement lights ll "08-MPS" plates ll Cobb AP V3 (E85) ll CP-e TBE ll OCC






  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GibbA View Post
    Yeah according to the log, 80km/h in 3rd is around 4100rpm
    Acceleration wise i think you have proved short ratio/wheels gives more oomph than a turbo upgrade, would still be good to see you next to a car with similar power to see ur back end pull away
    MPS Gen 2 2012 - i think i have Ebola

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaneski View Post
    Acceleration wise i think you have proved short ratio/wheels gives more oomph than a turbo upgrade, would still be good to see you next to a car with similar power to see ur back end pull away
    Oh yes I agree. Only thing I've got around here I can set up a race with is my mates 360rwkw ute, and unfortunately he happens to pull past me... :/
    I must say though, for 160kw MORE than me and something like 700+nm, he doesn't go past me that fast...
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

    CS SRI ll CS TIP ll CS AB ll 2XS SSP ll 2XS FMIC ll SURE Anchors ll Enkei RPF1's 17x9 +45 ll Lamin-X Fog Tint ll DBA T3 4000 series ll Remsa pads ll Braided lines
    CP-E S2 RMM ll Hankook RS3 235/40/17 ll Forge V1 BPV ll Whiteline RSB ll AutoTech HPFP
    ll Spin-on Conversion ll Rear Diffuser
    DGR Coilovers ll LED Replacement lights ll "08-MPS" plates ll Cobb AP V3 (E85) ll CP-e TBE ll OCC






  4. #84

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    Latest revision --> 0.7

    Ray has now focused more on keeping the log clean than increasing power at this stage, enter "Super Careful mode".

    He requested a normal 4th WOT log, as well as a heatsoaked log.
    Some more restriction was added to 1st and 2nd as well.

    I asked for more restriction, because on revision 0.6 I decided to do the hill climb track in Newcastle if any know where or what that is.
    Rounded the hairpin and flattened it in 2nd up the hill and instead of just spinning up the hill in 2nd, I smoked my way up the hill. Very impressed, but also dismayed as I watched my money fade away

    I have still been getting a big of bog on acceleration from time to time, so Ray requested I try log this which I did this afternoon. Logged my whole trip home, and then sat down to my 16,000+ line data log. The 2 times I'd experienced bog it seemed my IDC had dropped, sending AFR's upwards and the engine to bog. Measures to stop this have been put in the next revision.

    Anyway, here is my 4th WOT log. No power increases were made to this revision, so none were seen, but still pulling like normal right to the top!



    As can see, power pulls strongly, still with 188kw @ 6500rpm

    My heatsoaked 4th WOT log showed a bit of KR through mid-top of the log, but was very minimal for the >130 Bat I had during the log.
    Next revision should reduce this KR.


    Revision 0.7:

    Ambient Temperature = 19c
    60-100mph = 5.39s
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

    CS SRI ll CS TIP ll CS AB ll 2XS SSP ll 2XS FMIC ll SURE Anchors ll Enkei RPF1's 17x9 +45 ll Lamin-X Fog Tint ll DBA T3 4000 series ll Remsa pads ll Braided lines
    CP-E S2 RMM ll Hankook RS3 235/40/17 ll Forge V1 BPV ll Whiteline RSB ll AutoTech HPFP
    ll Spin-on Conversion ll Rear Diffuser
    DGR Coilovers ll LED Replacement lights ll "08-MPS" plates ll Cobb AP V3 (E85) ll CP-e TBE ll OCC






  5. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wollongong
    Posts
    846

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    Hate to state the obvious but it would be safe to assume due to gearing a Gen Juan would generally have a quicker 60-100 than a Gen Pu if they were evenly matched mod + power wise. I never saw anywhere near your 60-100 times even with E85 with the k04 but my 19" wheels were probably no help.

  6. #86

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    Must say I noticed an instant increase in overall feel/acceleration when i put my 8kg 18s on the car

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by ledfootrob View Post
    Hate to state the obvious but it would be safe to assume due to gearing a Gen Juan would generally have a quicker 60-100 than a Gen Pu if they were evenly matched mod + power wise. I never saw anywhere near your 60-100 times even with E85 with the k04 but my 19" wheels were probably no help.
    Yeah I totally agree. I guess we can take this as an advocate for the advantages of lower gearing and less unsprung weight for > acceleration.
    That said, there would be advantages of having taller gearing (otherwise mazda wouldn't have put it in the Gen2) and it has crossed my mind to swap over to a gen2 box (not sure if this is possible though) or get some taller gear if I ever need a gearbox rebuild due to shift fork pads/syncros or the like.

    For now though, I'm liking the acceleration.


    Quote Originally Posted by dazza View Post
    Must say I noticed an instant increase in overall feel/acceleration when i put my 8kg 18s on the car
    Compared to?.. Stock rims?

    Hoping to get some stock rims on the car within the next week and do some logs. Get some comparisons happening.
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

    CS SRI ll CS TIP ll CS AB ll 2XS SSP ll 2XS FMIC ll SURE Anchors ll Enkei RPF1's 17x9 +45 ll Lamin-X Fog Tint ll DBA T3 4000 series ll Remsa pads ll Braided lines
    CP-E S2 RMM ll Hankook RS3 235/40/17 ll Forge V1 BPV ll Whiteline RSB ll AutoTech HPFP
    ll Spin-on Conversion ll Rear Diffuser
    DGR Coilovers ll LED Replacement lights ll "08-MPS" plates ll Cobb AP V3 (E85) ll CP-e TBE ll OCC






  8. #88
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    South Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    400

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    Would be interested to see if it can weigh your RFP01s with the tyres when they are off the car next? Just out of curiosity, and for a reference

    Yes, yes, I can google weights but it's not as accurate!

  9. #89

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    Was <6kg iirc. Weighted them a little while ago, will do it again tonight

    Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 4

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GibbA View Post
    Yeah I totally agree. I guess we can take this as an advocate for the advantages of lower gearing and less unsprung weight for > acceleration.
    That said, there would be advantages of having taller gearing (otherwise mazda wouldn't have put it in the Gen2) and it has crossed my mind to swap over to a gen2 box (not sure if this is possible though) or get some taller gear if I ever need a gearbox rebuild due to shift fork pads/syncros or the like.

    For now though, I'm liking the acceleration.




    Compared to?.. Stock rims?

    Hoping to get some stock rims on the car within the next week and do some logs. Get some comparisons happening.
    i think Mazda may have made the gearing taller for fuel economy which is ok for me as i do quite a lot of freeway/long distance drives, but on the other hand acceleration is what we buy these cars for.
    MPS Gen 2 2012 - i think i have Ebola

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaneski View Post
    i think Mazda may have made the gearing taller for fuel economy which is ok for me as i do quite a lot of freeway/long distance drives, but on the other hand acceleration is what we buy these cars for.
    That said, I wouldn't say the Gen 2 can't shift quickly lol.

    The gearing on the Gen 2 is still quite beastly. At Eastern Creek a few months back, @Reedy and I were picking off all manner of cars down the main straight once the Gen 2 hits 5th - ranging from modified Rexies to V8s. Depsite whatever Mazda did to the first 4 gears, 5th is spot on!

    To put us back on topic: @GibbA, looking like a strong and well sorted car at the moment! I notice your torque is kicking in quite early in the rev range (as does mine). Out of curiosity, have you got a VD graph which starts lower in the rev range?

  12. #92

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    Not a recent VD, Ray advised against going WOT <2500RPM and I think that's a good idea just to be on the safe side, seeing as though id never go wot that early on the street or the track.

    Also, gen2 box vs gen1 box has nothing to do with shifting speed so not sure where that came from

    Atr has the stock gear ratios, I'll post them up when I can get onto the computer, can you post up gen2 please?

    Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 4

  13. #93

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    Poor choice in words - I meant "shift" as in "move quickly" as opposed to changing gears.

    Fair enough with not going WOT too low, I try to avoid doing anything too stupid at low RPMs as well.

    Gear ratio per the Mazda website for the Gen 2 are as follows:

    Gear ratio 1st 3.214
    Gear ratio 2nd 1.913
    Gear ratio 3rd 1.366
    Gear ratio 4th 1.025
    Gear ratio 5th 0.948
    Gear ratio 6th 0.790
    Gear ratio reverse 3.456
    Gear ratio final drive 4.187 (1st-4th) 3.526 (5th-6th)

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by shaneski View Post
    i think Mazda may have made the gearing taller for fuel economy which is ok for me as i do quite a lot of freeway/long distance drives, but on the other hand acceleration is what we buy these cars for.
    Yes good point, needs to be a compromise of acceleration and economy etc,
    That said, shorter the gearing, the harder to put down the power (talking 2nd and 3rd here)
    My idea of better ratios is make 1st and 2nd longer, 3rd a little longer and the rest the same. (as gen1)
    This helps a little with putting power down when taking off, achieve a higher speed in 3rd (better for track I believe but stand to be corrected) and then 4th is perfect, as are 5th and 6th.
    As far as fuel economy goes though, I don't see how much different it would be just through gear ratios. (do appreciate you would get a small gain though).

    On the stock map, as well as stage 1 I would get about 220km before the needle dipped to half a tank when driving hard (didn't even do a full tank on stage 2 before I started tuning so I can't compare it) but it have just gotten to half a tank now and have done 26x km. This is with a LOT of wot logs (do many more than I post).
    In short, more power, more torque but better fuel economy. Go figure.

    I partly put it down to better fueling tables, (stock tables were way richer to accommodate a generic map and ecu was always trying to pull fuel) but the rest...? Tuning wizardry I guess and much better afr control.

    Sent from my LG-P880 using Tapatalk 4
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

    CS SRI ll CS TIP ll CS AB ll 2XS SSP ll 2XS FMIC ll SURE Anchors ll Enkei RPF1's 17x9 +45 ll Lamin-X Fog Tint ll DBA T3 4000 series ll Remsa pads ll Braided lines
    CP-E S2 RMM ll Hankook RS3 235/40/17 ll Forge V1 BPV ll Whiteline RSB ll AutoTech HPFP
    ll Spin-on Conversion ll Rear Diffuser
    DGR Coilovers ll LED Replacement lights ll "08-MPS" plates ll Cobb AP V3 (E85) ll CP-e TBE ll OCC






  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesa2z View Post
    Poor choice in words - I meant "shift" as in "move quickly" as opposed to changing gears.

    Fair enough with not going WOT too low, I try to avoid doing anything too stupid at low RPMs as well.

    Gear ratio per the Mazda website for the Gen 2 are as follows:

    Gear ratio 1st 3.214
    Gear ratio 2nd 1.913
    Gear ratio 3rd 1.366
    Gear ratio 4th 1.025
    Gear ratio 5th 0.948
    Gear ratio 6th 0.790
    Gear ratio reverse 3.456
    Gear ratio final drive 4.187 (1st-4th) 3.526 (5th-6th)

    Ok, These are what ATR says, (version for my gen1) so would think they are accurate but.. anyway,

    Gear ratio 1st 3.54
    Gear ratio 2nd 2.24
    Gear ratio 3rd 1.53
    Gear ratio 4th 1.17
    Gear ratio 5th 1.09
    Gear ratio 6th 0.85
    Gear ratio reverse (Not listed in ATR)
    Gear ratio final drive 3.94 (1st-4th) 3.35 (5th-6th)

    So these is a difference all the way through. I'll plot it..
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

    CS SRI ll CS TIP ll CS AB ll 2XS SSP ll 2XS FMIC ll SURE Anchors ll Enkei RPF1's 17x9 +45 ll Lamin-X Fog Tint ll DBA T3 4000 series ll Remsa pads ll Braided lines
    CP-E S2 RMM ll Hankook RS3 235/40/17 ll Forge V1 BPV ll Whiteline RSB ll AutoTech HPFP
    ll Spin-on Conversion ll Rear Diffuser
    DGR Coilovers ll LED Replacement lights ll "08-MPS" plates ll Cobb AP V3 (E85) ll CP-e TBE ll OCC






  16. #96

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    Noticable difference.

    Means gen2 has higher top speed too

  17. #97

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    Gen 1 vmax is about 287km/h.

    Gen 2 vmax is more like 300+km/h

  18. #98

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    So it's been quite a while since updating this, came across a bit of a hurdle, but I'm all all but finished now.

    I started seeing more and more KR in my logs, started to run too lean, then too rich.. anything but normal.

    Also upon acceleration, several times a trip the car would stutter and lose power. Sometimes this was accompanied by knock, and sometimes not.

    We decided that it was a faulty MAF sensor, so I swapped mine over with a mate, drove around for a while, did a MAF cal as revision 9 and the same thing was still happening.

    Swapped back to my MAF for revision 10, tried a few things but still didn't work.

    Then decided it might be a faulty O2 sensor. I really didn't want this to be the case for the obvious reason of $$... :/
    Before replacing that, I thought i'd take off all the intake, then replace it, on the off chance I found an intake leak. Luckily I did. The clamp joining the TIP to the silicone from the turbo wasn't very tight. I'm not sure if being a worm clamp it had skipped a thread or I just hadn't tightened it properly.
    Also I found that the BPV return line to the TIP was starting to perish where it joined the TIP, and the little cracks in the rubber would be able to let air through.

    Both of these leaks were fixed up, and then we started going again.

    With a whole re-do of the MAF cal curves for revision 11, and again fine tuning for little bits of KR and repeated "Ray I need more 2nd gear restrictions" through revisions 12, 13 and 14.

    I'm now running revision 15 which had a slight increase in timing over the whole range, and will be taking my final log tomorrow night (if it's dry!)

    Also want to flash back to a stock (stage zero map) and do a WOT pull to compare back to back pulls and see where my mods and tuning has got me so far.

    Here is a messy graph of revisions 8-14 (missing the one where I was running a different MAF)



    Revision 1.4:

    Ambient Temperature = 21c
    60-100mph = 5.32s
    --> 2008 Metro Grey Sports Pack Gen1 <--

    CS SRI ll CS TIP ll CS AB ll 2XS SSP ll 2XS FMIC ll SURE Anchors ll Enkei RPF1's 17x9 +45 ll Lamin-X Fog Tint ll DBA T3 4000 series ll Remsa pads ll Braided lines
    CP-E S2 RMM ll Hankook RS3 235/40/17 ll Forge V1 BPV ll Whiteline RSB ll AutoTech HPFP
    ll Spin-on Conversion ll Rear Diffuser
    DGR Coilovers ll LED Replacement lights ll "08-MPS" plates ll Cobb AP V3 (E85) ll CP-e TBE ll OCC






  19. #99
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Sydney North
    Posts
    441

    Default

    Why do u want 2nd gear restrictions?? Also was it only the leaks causing the knock?

  20. #100

    Default Tuning Round 1!

    I would be guessing @GibbA is getting too much power and can't get it to grip on the road

    SOP

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