How to Handle Handling?

[GibbA]

So I'm wanting peoples opinions on how to increase the handling of the MPS3, and what you have done/ what had worked.

Currently all on the car are some lightweight enkeis 17x9 with extreme sport contact tyres, 245/40.
I'm looking to maximise the performance of the car around corners as much as I can (within the depth of my pocket), because that's how I want to be able to drive the car.
Power mods are on the cards too but after putting it through it's paces today around the twisties, I realise I need to focus just as much on this side of mods as the power side (Something I should have realised anyway!)

I also currently have a Whiteline 27mm rear sway bar, and a set of DGR coilovers ready to be put in, so any advice/tips regarding that would be appreciated too.

Anyway, tell me what you think!

- - - Updated - - -
@RedDjinn

[SarcasticOne]

go to a track day...

[GibbA]

I plan on doing this anyway, but how's that going to help my car? I know there are instructors there that can give you pointers and help you out, but you have to have the right tools to do the job as efficiently as possible, right?

[slixx]

go to a track day...

And that's why his name is @SarcasticOne
Nice one!

[DAN MPS 3]

Insert those Coils/RSB, combined with the big tyres should make a very decent package. Then take it out and drive the wheels off it until you know how every inch of that car reacts/behaves!

[LRRH]

I found noticeable change after installing Anti-lift kit and rem

[Jamesa2z]

RSB will make a world of difference to the handling. Get that in asap and you'll definitely see the difference that one small mod can make.

[SarcasticOne]

And that's why his name is @SarcasticOne
Nice one!

Was more a drunken comment about how you should go to a track day, and work out where you need improvements

[projectrracing]

Gibba, making it handle better is no different from the SP20. The MPS just has a few extra modern stuff that can be added also that the SP20 wouldn't have had.

As for the track day comment. I agree with it. If you can get some instruction, and have the mental ability to learn. Then you will be able to do things in cars you didn't think possible.

p.s. When I say mental ability to learn. Seriously some people just dont have it. Going from student to instructor with these type to situations, it's easy to figure it out on my side of the fence. Some people driving ability is limited as they have already hit their low maximum ability in a car.

[RedDjinn]

I found Shocks, under body bracing and RSB add the best results. I found tyre width did very little in the handling department, better traction off the line with 235 tyre. tyre choice is better tyres are just better! don't cheap out here!. Don't ever forget about camber/caster and toe (when lowering make sure you get adjustable camber/toe arms). What I do is every 6month on service when TH have my car I get them to make small changes to camber and realignment, so I can dial it in to my liking

[RedDjinn]

I found Shocks, under body bracing and RSB add the best results. I found tyre width did very little in the handling department, better traction off the line with 235 tyre. tyre choice is better tyres are just better! don't cheap out here!. Don't ever forget about camber/caster and toe (when lowering make sure you get adjustable camber/toe arms). What I do is every 6month on service when TH have my car I get them to make small changes to camber and realignment, so I can dial it in to my liking

[GibbA]

Insert those Coils/RSB, combined with the big tyres should make a very decent package. Then take it out and drive the wheels off it until you know how every inch of that car reacts/behaves!

Yes I want to learn the car and how it behaves in different situations etc

I found noticeable change after installing Anti-lift kit and rem

What exactly does the anti-lift kit do @MPSBNE? And what exactly was the difference you felt from it?

RSB will make a world of difference to the handling. Get that in asap and you'll no definitely see the difference that one small mod can make.

Yes I've heard that a lot, I think I'll put RSB in first and learn that before coils.

Gibba, making it handle better is no different from the SP20. The MPS just has a few extra modern stuff that can be added also that the SP20 wouldn't have had.

As for the track day comment. I agree with it. If you can get some instruction, and have the mental ability to learn. Then you will be able to do things in cars you didn't think possible.

p.s. When I say mental ability to learn. Seriously some people just dont have it. Going from student to instructor with these type to situations, it's easy to figure it out on my side of the fence. Some people driving ability is limited as they have already hit their low maximum ability in a car.

Yes I agree with the track day comment too, but feel it's more worth my time and money to take something to the track that's better than stock. Especially, take the same car to the track that i'll be driving daily, as then I'll actually be learning the car I drive every day.
And yes I understand some people are better than other when it comes to the track. I'm not expecting to be the next race car driver, but I know I want to put 100% effort in and get as good as I can because driving is a big passion of mine

I found Shocks, under body bracing and RSB add the best results. I found tyre width did very little in the handling department, better traction off the line with 235 tyre. tyre choice is better tyres are just better! don't cheap out here!. Don't ever forget about camber/caster and toe (when lowering make sure you get adjustable camber/toe arms). What I do is every 6month on service when TH have my car I get them to make small changes to camber and realignment, so I can dial it in to my liking

Yes I'm aware of not cheaping out on tyres, and that's something I know I'll NEVER be doing with this car. It's just dangerous if you do I think.
I don't know enough about camber/caster and toe specs to get it adjusted to what I want. Like I can't drive the car and say it need "X" amount more of "this"..
I had a set of whiteline camber arms offered to me yesterday, so would it be wise for me to take up that offer? Anyone had any experience with these?

I will hopefully be getting my hands on more bracing towards the end of the year, namely the Autoexe member brace and strut brace kits. Hopefully these will tighten things up quite a bit too?
What kind of camber/caster and toe specs do you recommend?

[GibbA]

Do you need shorter endlinks with the RSB at stock height? Thinking I'll put that in, and then when I lower, I'll have a set of shorter endlinks then..

[RedDjinn]

If you trying to keep sway bar in optium position they will need to be longer I think. I'd grab the camber arms, i'd go to standard camber and toe and than visit the track. Talk to more experience driver/Mech's, tell them what the car feels like and how you want it to perform. Personally I like the arse to let go before front, so I go for lots of bracing and + camber on the rear and adjust tyre pressure to roll where im happy with it. Try when you have a bit of road, turn the dsc off and put 45psi in the rear tyres. Swing the car left and right get a feel for it than drop to 25-30psi. If you like the 45psi you like the arse to grip. Stay at standard camber settings. If you like the lower psi you like a more drifter style feel, get more + camber and brace the car well.

[RedDjinn]

Might add with camber also effects the way the car brakes under load.. Too much camber will make the car feel unstable under hard braking.

[GibbA]

Yes I don't want crazy camber, but I want functional camber.
So I've read about how when you lower the car you're changing the roll couple of roll centre and centre of gravity. When lowering, you are increasing the gap between these two points which is bad. That is why I do not want to lower much, but the stiffer springs and lower CG will help combat that I'm hoping.
Also, I can't lower too much because of the amount of poke from my wheels :/ and I'm not (as I said) wanting to have lots of camber.
When you say lots of bracing in the rear of your car, what bracing exactly do you have? And do you have ANY in the front?
I will try out your tyre pressure thingo, are you meaning do this with RSB in or not? At a guess I think i'll prefer it the way you do, but I'll have to see...

[RedDjinn]

Yes I don't want crazy camber, but I want functional camber.
So I've read about how when you lower the car you're changing the roll couple of roll centre and centre of gravity. When lowering, you are increasing the gap between these two points which is bad. That is why I do not want to lower much, but the stiffer springs and lower CG will help combat that I'm hoping.
Also, I can't lower too much because of the amount of poke from my wheels :/ and I'm not (as I said) wanting to have lots of camber.
When you say lots of bracing in the rear of your car, what bracing exactly do you have? And do you have ANY in the front?
I will try out your tyre pressure thingo, are you meaning do this with RSB in or not? At a guess I think i'll prefer it the way you do, but I'll have to see...

you can do the tyre pressure any time you want, its a guide to see how you want the rear of you car to respond without pushing limits in corners on public roads. I have boot brace and under body brace sway bar swing arms. I have a bottom wing arm brace on the front, gives a nice turn in feel. I'm looking to do more bracing under the car.

[GibbA]

Well I installed the Rear Sway Bar and noticed immediately the improvement.
Just feels that the car immediately wants to go in the direction I point the wheel. As if it just pivots on the rear wheels (like they are planted) and shoots off into the desired direction.
In the corners the front feels less "washy" and holds the line better.

I'll try to find an open sweeping corner to see if understeer enters the equation first, or the rear end gets happy, but I'm glad I've done this anyway.

Question about rear camber arms, buy a set of actual arms or not?
The whiteline "arms" I was offered I found out are stock with camber "Bushes" inserted. What is general opinion on these?

[Yeldarb]

Speak to your local suspension shop who isn't completely biased and knows these cars and ask them.

But from personal experience Fulcrum Suspension hated my set of SPC Arms I got from Edge. Extremely difficult to adjust from underneath the car while it's being aligned. The guy came away bleeding. Told me I wasted my money. He told me the adjustable Toe is better to have (which I had already) The camber adjustment he gets just by loosening off and resetting existing OEM components. This alignment was to improve tyre wear.


Sent from Samsung Note 2 LTE

[GibbA]

Thanks for the input @Yeldarb. What do you have for the adjustable toe? Or are you referring to the stock setup?