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Thread: Stratified Tune

  1. #1
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    Default Stratified Tune

    So thought it was time to open up a new thread showing the progress of the tune. I'm up to revision 2 and have been waiting for the right time to peform the prescribed 3rd & 4th gear WOT logs. I eventually found a night where i had time and the conditions were good and went out and got the 3rd gear WOT. All seemed to feel fine but didn't have the balls to go 4th WOT (yes i enjoy having a license ). So my better judgement led me to BTT this morning. I thought...2 birds, 1 stone...perform the 4th gear log and get a power read at the same time. While i was there i thought, what the heck do the 3rd gear log again...

    Well 4th gear run went off without any dramas....Set it up for the 3rd gear run and just as the revs were up, ready for logging he suddenly aborted. I unsure what was happening as i wasn't paying full attention to sounds from the engine bay but Rob distinctly heard noise that suggested the car was heading for detonation ....he saying it's down to the timing.

    I immediately reported Rob's findings to Mike (stratified) ...my email below and his response..

    Hi Bob,

    I'll be interested in seeing the logs as currently there is very little timing in the tune. Also, to avoid expense you can just do 3rd gear logs if you feel safe doing those on the roads and it keeps you off the dyno. Full 3rd gear WOT logs and partial 4th gear logs (up to the speed you feel safe at) will suffice for me.

    Mike Neary
    Calibration Engineer








    Bob Blair said the following on 8/6/2013 6:29 PM:
    Hi there Mike,Just a quick email. I've not had a real chance to perform the WOT logs and am a bit sketchy about doing the 4th gear on the open road, so i took the car into my tuner with the roller dyno to perform the logs this morning. We managed a 4th gear WOT log from 3000-6200. Then went to perform the 3rd gear WOT log. Unfortunately before we even got to 3000rpm he aborted the run as he heard noises that suggested the car was going into "detonation". He suggested this is purely down to timing..I will load the power run from the 4th gear WOT log as well as the AP log tonight....FYI the car is currently 190Bhp @ 516ft/p torque.


    Cheers
    Bob


    Would be keen to see what others think so i've attached the 3rd gear WOT run i did a few days ago, along with 4th gear WOT performed on the roller dyno today. I've also attached the dyno graph from the 4th gear run. Power is also still well down, which i was a little disappointed with.... @SarcasticOne , @2XS...would love your imput right now and anyone else who would like to chime in

    3rdGearWOT2.csv

    4thGearWOT2.csv

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Aaarrrghh...hoping this shit gets sorted soon...
    2XS RACING $ CORKSPORT $ MAGNAFLOW $ ​UNSURE MOTORSPORTS $ COBB $ INJEN $ FULCRUM $ FEDERAL TYRES $ VISUAL GARAGE $ ADVANCED PERFORMANCE CENTRE $ B C M $ NGK $ STRATIFIED $ AUTOTECH $ DBA $ REMSA $ DGR $ MORIMOTO $ JBR $ FUSION

  2. #2
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    At 3500rpm where your knock is your at leanest 11.8... Hence the knock! Your running rich at the point were our cars make power 4500-5500, this is why your peak power is down. There is not much timing, 21/22psi on a k04 not a fan of that. Increase the timing a bit drop to 19psi, lean it off at to 10.8- 11afr 4500-5500 you will get your power... I couldn't see much else wrong.
    Last edited by RedDjinn; 07-08-2013 at 06:33 PM.

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    Drinking, look later

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedDjinn View Post
    At 3500rpm where your knock is your at leanest 11.8... Hence the knock! Your running rich at the point were our cars make power 4500-5500, this is why your peak power is down. There is not much timing, 21/22psi on a k04 not a fan of that. Increase the timing a bit drop to 19psi, lean it off at to 10.8- 11afr 4500-5500 you will get your power... I couldn't see much else wrong.
    Thanks Luke, gotta say without regulars like you on the forum that are able to diagnose the running of our cars so well, i think i'd be a bit lost. We'll see what Mike comes back with as well. He was kind of suggesting in his email that the car is running safe atm..but 22psi has me

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SarcasticOne View Post
    Drinking, look later

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    All good man...might have one myself...chill out a bit
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  5. #5
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    The main thing I noticed was the richening up of your AFR's in that 4th gear log. Its like there is a boost leak. Otherwise the 3rd gear log looks fine and its pretty normal to have knock around 3-3500rpm from spoolup.

  6. #6
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    @MPSBNE Mate, 0.16 is not knock. That is nothing to worry about. When knock gets to 2.0 then it will be something to look at, I am sure your tuner will tell you the same. Did you do the logs to 6k or 6.5k? If not then you should. A full WOT run will be better because you can see the whole mapping area.

    The other thing is the boost. The K04 is just pumping hot air at that level, drop boost and increase timing as said before, that is probably what your tuner will do. As for the AFR's, it is a little lean. 10.8 - 11 should be the target on 98.

    The 4th gear log has something worrying, line 51 to 52, AFR's jump from 9.5 to 11.2 and in the same line you injector duty cycles goes from 87 to 73????? This is something that you need to bring to Mike's attention. That should NOT occur. That is almost like a leak and then it stops leaking all of a sudden. Boost leak test should be done.

    All that said, Mike will sort all of that out in a jiffy. I just had a quick look so I hope I didn't miss anything.
    Cheers

    Grumpy

    Tuned with
    By Alex...........

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
    @MPSBNE Mate, 0.16 is not knock. That is nothing to worry about. When knock gets to 2.0 then it will be something to look at, I am sure your tuner will tell you the same. Did you do the logs to 6k or 6.5k? If not then you should. A full WOT run will be better because you can see the whole mapping area.

    The other thing is the boost. The K04 is just pumping hot air at that level, drop boost and increase timing as said before, that is probably what your tuner will do. As for the AFR's, it is a little lean. 10.8 - 11 should be the target on 98.

    The 4th gear log has something worrying, line 51 to 52, AFR's jump from 9.5 to 11.2 and in the same line you injector duty cycles goes from 87 to 73????? This is something that you need to bring to Mike's attention. That should NOT occur. That is almost like a leak and then it stops leaking all of a sudden. Boost leak test should be done.

    All that said, Mike will sort all of that out in a jiffy. I just had a quick look so I hope I didn't miss anything.
    Thanks Andre, am hoping Mike sorts out as well
    2XS RACING $ CORKSPORT $ MAGNAFLOW $ ​UNSURE MOTORSPORTS $ COBB $ INJEN $ FULCRUM $ FEDERAL TYRES $ VISUAL GARAGE $ ADVANCED PERFORMANCE CENTRE $ B C M $ NGK $ STRATIFIED $ AUTOTECH $ DBA $ REMSA $ DGR $ MORIMOTO $ JBR $ FUSION

  8. #8

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    Good luck mate
    I'm sure it'll be all sorted soon enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by slixx View Post
    Good luck mate
    I'm sure it'll be all sorted soon enough
    Thanks Pete...

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    So an update. I must say i can't question Stratified's response time and level of care they offer....here's the email i sent to Mike and response i received back from him after i contributed some feedback in my email received from the forum.

    Hi Bob -

    Glanced at both logs briefly before heading to work. There isn't a bit of knock retard in either log so rest assured that whatever he heard, it was not knock. The 4th gear log, which I assume was from the dyno pull, does show that SWAS engaged so he must have turned the wheel slightly during the pull, or perhaps DSC was not disabled. Is your 2009 considered a Gen1 or Gen2? There are ways to disable SWAS if that is the culprit.


    Again, I see no KR at all in either log, and in fact the car looks to be running well and taking to the changes we are making well. I will make you another map based on these logs and send it out to you tonight.


    Bob:
    Ok, thanks Mike. Curious to know what he heard then because it was enough to spook him out of performing the log. The power seems pretty low still, but I'm sure it's still probably normal this early on. 1 thing I noticed ..line 51 & 52 AFR jumps from 9.5 to 11.2 and in the same line injector duty cycles from 87 to 73. Weve only recently given the car a once over checking for boost leaks so no trouble as far as im aware. Car is a 2009 Gen2. Oh and DSC disabled at time of pull, so perhaps SWAS? (not sure what that means btw lol). Looking forward to the next revision


    Mike:

    Hi Bobby -


    I'm about to work on your tune and send you a map but I wanted to address a couple things from this email. The power is *really* confusing to me. Your boost, timing and airflow numbers indicate that you should be in the 270-280hp range. The dyno chart you sent me shows 516ft.lbs. and there is just no way that number is possible. I confess to not being horribly knowledgeable about dynos, but this torque number would indicate something is wrong with the calibration to me. Also, you sent me a 4th gear log that was from the dyno pull but the vehicle speed would seem to indicate it was a 3rd gear pull. For my own sanity I loaded the 3rd gear log you did on the road into Virtual Dyno but HP numbers were much lower than expected as well. It could be that I need to do something different for the ADM car in the VD setup. At any rate, I plan to discuss this with Alex and get back to you.

    In the dyno log I seen an event that happens at around line 12 where AFRs get rich and VVT goes to 0. This is the exact behavior the car exhibits when DSC engages. I ran a 3rd gear log on my car today with DSC on and the log looks almost identical to yours, so I'm fairly confident that DSC was not disabled during this dyno pull. At line 21 I believe that SWAS (Steering Wheel Angle Sensor) was engaged at the 9.99 AFR is indicative of that. On the Gen2s it doesn't take much steering input to engage SWAS at all. At lines 51 and 52 the decrease in Injector Duty Cycles is expected since the AFRs went from rich to leaner, meaning less fuel flowing through the injectors.

    Just to reconfirm, aside from the low power numbers I don't see anything wrong in these logs at all. The power numbers make absolutely no sense to me given the other data in the logs and I will brainstorm with Alex to see if we can figure out why that is.

    Regards,

    Re-asurring to know that the Stratified team share information...great service!

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    If there is anything I can attest is that they are thorough, dedicated and proud of their name and their results

  12. #12
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    Wow great feed back from mike be interesting what comes out.. good luck @MPSBNE

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    Yeah definitely cannot question Stratified, service level exceeding my expectation. I also need to make it clear that the car to me feels stronger then it ever has before with no fuel cuts, hesitation etc..i'm beginning to think this might be an issue with the rolling dyno the car was on yesterday...we'll see what the guys come back with..

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    Open road ftw bobby

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    Ok, so just feeling like a bit of a dope right now ...the logs i sent to Mike were labelled around the wrong way ie 3rd gear WOT labelled 4th Gear WOT and vice versa...What didn't help is the fact that the rolling dyno i used yesterday for the 4th gear WOT log and power run is simply not reading correctly, this may interest you @Yeldarb (which explains the stupidly high torque number on the graph). After reading everything correctly this is the current state-of-play...to say the least i'm pretty pleased with things considering this is only the 2nd revision received from Mike....3rd revision to be loaded tomorrow...

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    so about 198kws & 470nm torque ATW...so far!!!
    Last edited by LRRH; 08-08-2013 at 02:19 PM.
    2XS RACING $ CORKSPORT $ MAGNAFLOW $ ​UNSURE MOTORSPORTS $ COBB $ INJEN $ FULCRUM $ FEDERAL TYRES $ VISUAL GARAGE $ ADVANCED PERFORMANCE CENTRE $ B C M $ NGK $ STRATIFIED $ AUTOTECH $ DBA $ REMSA $ DGR $ MORIMOTO $ JBR $ FUSION

  16. #16

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    Awesome numbers so early in the tune... Especially that juice torque

  17. #17
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    Don't be soft Bob! :P Late night 4th gear WOT runs on m1 is the bestest feeling!

  18. #18
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    Like to see how this will compare to Richard done to mine.... May need a new map if your able to squeeze more outta ur tune lol....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3MPSPWR View Post
    Don't be soft Bob! :P Late night 4th gear WOT runs on m1 is the bestest feeling!
    hehe..peer pressure much Eddie, think I gotta give it a serious crack though now I'm seeing the numbers climbing

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN MPS 3 View Post
    Awesome numbers so early in the tune... Especially that juice torque
    Yeah Dan, stoked with that torque. More to go on the power though :P
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3MPSPWR View Post
    Like to see how this will compare to Richard done to mine.... May need a new map if your able to squeeze more outta ur tune lol....
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