MPS FWD vs AWD

[tone]

Hey guys, basically. Im trying to convice a mate, that FWD isn't as rubbish as he is making out to be. Ive got nothing wrong with FWD, torque steer = fun. and wheelspin off the lights, shows you have some power. big deal

anyway, my mate is just going on and on and on about how **** fwd and has no benefits over awd.

Anything more I could tell him, or is he basically right? haha

I've told him AWD acts more like a FWD in cornering due to power distribution, but I not sure if thats 100% accurate.

[PaulG]

is he looking to buy a new car... ? if not just ignore him....ha

if he is take him for a spin and line up a new rexy and show him what happens haha

Honestly if he has the cash to throw he will get a AWD car... Evo...STi... something exotic... what ever... if not the MPS Bang for buck value is to good to pass up....

basically talk is cheap... until you drive a car and feel what it has to offer then theres is no point whining about what you dont have or cant afford !!

What does he drive by the way ?

[tone]

He is picking up the new hyundai Elantra I mean the NEW wrx, 50k, all optioned up. non sti. going on about how he will chomp us mps's with ease because of awd. funnily enough i had a little play with one this morning on wicks road, turning onto epping road, went around a corner ( with the new sumitomos) neck and neck then he pulled behind as traffic banked up in his lane

[PaulG]

lol.....

he will see haha..

[Nuliaj]

AWD like in an Sti or Evo does not behave like FWD during cornering. The Sti's SI control allows you to control how much torque goes to the rear and can behave more like a RWD car if you choose. The new 09 WRX is faster than an MPS from a dig (it has faster 0-100 than an STI), and with a decent driver it will also be faster on the track and dragstrip. I would even go so far as to say that the MPS has lost it's bang for buck crown. Sure I think it's ugly, but you can bet that the aftermarket choices will be limitless compared to ours.

[PaulG]

oh thats right they had to put out a new version didn't they with bit more power ?

[Nuliaj]

Yeah it basically screwed over the Ralliart Lancer. New WRX is 195kw @ 6000 rpm, Ralliart is 177kw @ 6000 rpm. Exactly the same torque @ 343 Nm funnnily. The WRX is also quite light at ~1400kg compared to the 1550-1590kg Ralliart.

[duglet]

Yeah it basically screwed over the Ralliart Lancer. New WRX is 195kw @ 6000 rpm, Ralliart is 177kw @ 6000 rpm. The WRX is also quite light at ~1400kg.

Ralliart Lancer = Expensive = Heavy = Slow = Beaten by a MPS = EPIC FAIL

Happy Motoring
duglet

[Nuliaj]

+1

The ONLY reason to buy the Ralliart is if you like the looks more than the WRX. Both are hideous in my opinion. A funny saying about the Dodge SRT I read on another forum which I think applies here: It doesn't matter how fast you make your car, you can't outrun the ugliness.

[EQ]

MPS6 = heavy. But I love my porker...quirks and all.

We can also run in FWD mode...lol...makes the ride quieter

[kmh001]

Tone it's a question of dynamics, economics, function and personal preference.

It's probably worth remembering that almost all cars (except the morris mini) were rwd until the late 1970's when the TQM people came along and told car makers they could increase their profits by making cars fwd. The engineers argued they made cars rwd because it’s dynamically superior, but not surprisingly the bean counters won in most cases. There are very few rwd cars left today and those that do survive like BMW, Mercedes, Commodore, and Falcon exist in a constant state of tension where their dynamics have to justify their existence economically. AWD’s are off to the side as niche cars because few people are willing to pay extra for it.

One of the perverse things about awd dynamics is that the cornering ability gets better the faster you go. In other cars if you find yourself going too fast at the apex you’re in an under steer and fancy driving world. But in an awd car you can be under steering off the road almost out of control and you can just nail it and it hunkers down, the front tucks in and it goes around the corner.

You can make a fwd fast and fun to drive, but there are natural limits to what can be achieved because you’ll always be fighting against Sir Isaac where awd/rwd cars are working with him.

I own a fwd for a family car but for having fun I own an awd. There’s nothing wrong with owning a fwd and there are plenty of fine fwd cars including the MPS3. But your mate is right, you can’t argue with the physics, if it weren’t for manufacturing economics and compactness there’d be little reason for car makers to offer fwd cars.

Let the war begin.

[Jmac]

Mate just tell him AWD stands for "Assistance for Weak Drivers"
That will shut him up

[tone]

haha so basically. FWD is the cheapest. with no other benefits?

I watched a vid on youtube with the new new wrx vs the new mps. and the mps beats it in the handling challenges. why would this be?

[Jmac]

haha so basically. FWD is the cheapest. with no other benefits?

I watched a vid on youtube with the new new wrx vs the new mps. and the mps beats it in the handling challenges. why would this be?

There are benefits, such as less weight, plus less drive line losses (power wise) - eg MPS has 190KW @ engine and about ~160KW ATW, the WRX would be alot less than that due to losses through the AWD system.

Post up the vid, I think that the one you saw was the 'series 1' WRX.

[kmh001]

I watched a vid on youtube with the new new wrx vs the new mps. and the mps beats it in the handling challenges. why would this be?

That's not a valid question because they are two different cars. There are too many variables. The only way that type of comparison could mean anything is if two cars that were otherwise identical were used, except that one had fwd and the other awd.

I can actually offer you a better answer that eliminates all the variables. If you're willing to pay for the tyres I'll take my MPS6 to the track and do laps in both fwd and awd modes, then you can see the difference for yourself.

[Nuliaj]

There are benefits, such as less weight, plus less drive line losses (power wise) - eg MPS has 190KW @ engine and about ~160KW ATW, the WRX would be alot less than that due to losses through the AWD system.

Post up the vid, I think that the one you saw was the 'series 1' WRX.

The WRX is pretty light at 1400kg kerb weight, what does the MPS3 weigh? Handling challenges are more about suspension, weight distribution and chassis when talking about similar sized/powered cars.

[tone]

this is the link i was referring to

YouTube - Chevy Cobalt SS vs. 09 WRX, Mazdaspeed 3, and Four Other Sport Compacts - Car and Driver


this is the 07 mps vs 08 rex. pointless i guess but for fun if anyone is interested

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6PGMi89qRo

[Jmac]

1403(MPS) 1410(WRX). Though I was commenting on the added weight of AWD, not the comparable weight.

Take it to WSID and settle it for good

[MaN|aC]

AWD's are more fun there is no denying, most i have driven drive like a grippy RWD when pushed in corners....... i liked the new challenge of a high powered FWD and the different driving style needed for the track. Having grown up in rear wheel karting and stealing dads old M3 many years ago on many occasions (sssh dont tell him that why his tyres were so bald all the time) i decided i wanted a change from rw drift.

Ok, so maybe the focus wasnt THAT high powered but it damn well is now.

[Team Green]

I mighten have the power of a MPS or all paws assistance but I find that if u set ur car up (FWD) before the corner its amazing how well they corner.....I have driven different cars in my life and I find the Mazda 2 Genki straight out of the box a very balanced little car.....

Last weeks Top Gear Australia had an EVO X up against a BMW 135i and AWD v RWD and the drag race went to the Beemer and the track race went to the EVO....the Beemer seemed very tail happy....

Consider that Jake Camilleri in his MPS3 is doing well in the Australian Manufactures Championship and he is up against EVO's, WRX's, 335i BMW, V8, XR6T....and after a full season last year he has the little MPS rocketing and in the last evnet he captured some very impressive times and managed to beat home the AWD's...

See his progress below..

NATSOFT Race Result

http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/re...4/2009.WAKE.R1

http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/re...4/2009.WAKE.R5

Jake had an unexpected DNF in Race 3...