MPS 6: control arm bushes

[JonBOY26]

Hi all,

My girlfriends 2005 MPS 6 has been making a few noises under the front end for a little while now and today we had it diagnosed at our local Mazda repair centre.

Apparently both lower and upper control arm bushes are in need of replacing on both the left and right hand sides of the car (so a complete set of control arm bushes are needed). The car has 20" rims on it and Mazda claimed this was the likely cause, however the car also has quite a few kms on it so I'm sure they were already in need of replacing prior to fitting the 20" rims.

A drive-in, drive-out repair was quoted at $1846. This cost breaks down to $923 for the upper (left and right) and another $923 for the lower (left and right). Apparently approx $800 of the total cost was parts whilst the rest was labour as the repair was going to take 1.5 days of workshop time.

Given the expense I'm wondering;

1) is that price as ludicrous as I think it is? Or is replacing all the control arm bushes actually a very big job?

2) Although I'm no mechanic I'm pretty handy with a set of tools, so is this a job an enthusiast could tackle in his own garage? I'm aware that a wheel alignment is necessary after the repair however that's only $50 at the tyre place down the road.

3) Are there better aftermarket bushes that we should be installing rather than installing new OEM bushes?

Any insight or guidance on replacing control arm bushes in an MPS 6 would be greatly appreciated as we are not keen to drop $1900 on this fix.

Thanks peoples!

[JonBOY26]

Ok so I've continued reading up on the repair and have found some helpful threads on other forums:

Control arm bushing replacement

Questions about control arms - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum

It looks like the bushes themselves are actually cheap and can replaced independent of the control arms, however installing the bushes in the control arms require an industrial press. Some guys are removing their control arms and taking them to local engineering places to have the bushes pressed in.

Alternatively, it appears that replacement control arms can be bought with the bushes pre-fitted. RockAuto lists a bunch of parts in this regard. So far this sounds like best option that I've been able to find. I'm still a bit hazy though as to which control arms are the problematic ones and should be bought with bushes pre-fitted, and which are ok to buy separate bushes for (ie lower or upper)

[rogwick]

Don't take what Mazda says as gospel. My ball joints went and Mazda said I need a new upper control arm (around $400 each). My mechanic laughed at this and I ended up getting left and right ball joints for $40 on ebay and he fitted them (press fit) just on top of my usual service. If I recall a couple of hundred would have been plenty to install (have no idea what I ended up paying but it wasn't much)

FYI - if you can (I know its press fitted in) but have a look at your ball joints. They're common to go and both mine were gone. If you look at replacing the control arm anyway no dramas. I would say you should be able to get after market bushes. Although Mazda makes some ok stuff once it breaks don't replace with an OEM part unless you have to. Plenty other better quality stuff out there for much cheaper, its a no brainer.

That price is ridiculous btw! I'm no mechanic either but I don't think its a big job if you know what you're doing. My mechanic who works on his own turns around all my work in a day or two depending on what I needed doing.

[JonBOY26]

Thanks Rogwick,

Scepticism is always my first reaction after a fault diagnosis, so now that I've finished sorting out my garage I'll jack it up, remove the front wheels and have a proper look for myself. It would be great if it was just the ball joints as you mentioned.

Assuming new bushes, or control arms + bushes, are needed where would be a reliable place to buy from? one of the site supporters perhaps?

[rogwick]

I'd have a personal inspection also. Not hard to do. Not sure on where would be a great place to buy. There may be a local places to get your bushes done (like a 4WD specialist place or simlar) Obviously you can buy the control arm from Mazda, but you can also get control arms online, not sure on the quality though. My ball joints were cheap but seem to operate just fine.

I saw these just quick on ebay Bushes

Is that something you're after?

[JonBOY26]

Well last night I removed both the front wheels and inspected the suspension and steering. I've taken a bunch of pictures that I've compiled into 4 categories (Left lower, left upper, right lower and right upper control arm). I'd appreciate anybody taking a moment to look at them and give me their thoughts as to whether the bushes are indeed in need of replacing as well as whether these bushes are the likely cause of the noise we are trying to fix.

Whilst I'm not sure about all the bushes, the inside bushes on the lower front control arm are definitely cactus as the rubber bush is torn up. That goes for both the left and right sides of the vehicle as can be seen in the pics. The upper bushes on both sides appear to have their rubber boots in tact however I'm not sure if that means they're ok or whether these boots simply conceal a faulty bush underneath.






Given that the lower inside bushes are in need of replacing I'm guessing that Mazda have just recommended replacing all of them at once as it makes sense if you are going to the trouble of pulling the suspension apart. However I may be wrong and the other bushes are actually in need of replacing also.

I also included some pics of the tie rod ends.

So what are peoples opinions on these bushes?

Thanks

[rogwick]

You said your car was making noises but you didn't say what kind of noise. Does it make a "click" noise when you turn/shift the weight of the car?

Bushes look ok from a few of the pics but that's not to say they're fine. If I were you I'd be getting a set of ball joints (I'll attach a link of the ones I got) and see if you can get new bushes fitted. Use the existing control arms etc.

Should save you a bunch of labor costs. There is nothing wrong with the actual arms itself. It's either broken or not (aren't they cast iron or something)

2 Front Upper Ball Joint Set for Mazda 6 03 08 Mazda6 | eBay

[JonBOY26]

Hey Rogwick,

The noise made by the car sounds as if its coming from under the middle of the car, slightly forward of front seats. It's not a rubbery squeak, but more of a metal on metal noise. But it's not a loud clunk either. Usually I would hear it as the car was slowing down and about to come to rest, or during initial acceleration when still at low speeds. I've noticed that that if turn the wheel and left and right whilst at rest I can induce the sound also.

All bushes appear fine me with the exception of the inner bushes on both the lower front control arms, which are clearly toast. I can buy a pair of these lower front control arms pre-fitted with bushes and ball joint for $200 delivered. As such I'm considering just replacing these two arms at this stage and seeing how the car goes. I'm not exactly sure how much effort will be involved though and whether it would be silly of me not to replace the other components at the same time. From what I've read online replacing the lower rear control arm (of the front suspension) requires you to loosen and drop the mid-frame so you can undo the inner bolts.

[rogwick]

Those sound like they could be symptoms of ball joint. Do me a favour and have a mate sit on in your car and turn the wheel left and right ON THE SPOT. Place your hand directly on top of the ball joint and see if you can feel a "click" movement. I did this and was the reason I found out it was my ball joint. It was a funny problem that used to come and go until I found a way to replicate the fault with 80% failure rate and that was pivoting the wheels on the spot.

As for the bushes I still don't know, if you say some are clearly toast then it might be worthwhile changing the lot. Yeah sounds like a reasonable plan, replace the lower control arms if you know they require replacement and go from there. But its up to you, it might prove to be a waste of time and labor doing it and finding out there is still a problem with other parts...your call, good luck with it though

Do that ball joint test

[JonBOY26]

Thanks Rogwick, I'll definitely do that test before I commit to anything. However can you please clarify for me which ball joint you are referring to? It seems that all the control arms (upper, lower-front, lower-rear) all have their own ball joints, so I'm not sure which ball joint you are referring to. Thanks mate

[rogwick]

Thanks Rogwick, I'll definitely do that test before I commit to anything. However can you please clarify for me which ball joint you are referring to? It seems that all the control arms (upper, lower-front, lower-rear) all have their own ball joints, so I'm not sure which ball joint you are referring to. Thanks mate

Sure, I was referring to the top one on the upper control arm. Never had an issue with the bottom ones they're still OEM. If you're car isn't super low you can fit your hand under the wheel arch a rest it on top of the ball joint. Grab a mate to pull the wheel left and right on the spot, should feel solid. Mine was clearly "clicking" and had a strong vibration when it did "click"

[JonBOY26]

Awesome! Thanks. The car has 20" rims on it at the moment which doesn't leave much space to fit an arm through, however we have the old 18" wheels sitting around so I can put those on temporarily if need be.

Now that I think about it both the upper ball joints do look quite collapsed compared to the new ball joints pictured in the eBay auction that you listed earlier, so hopefully the problem is just a couple of ball joints.

[rogwick]

No worries, yeah you might struggle for room so perhaps put the 18's on. I hope it's ball joints too (but I don't know) having "been there, done that" I know what's involved and it wasn't much.

Feel free to have a look here if you like;

http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/handl...ints-mps6.html

[JonBOY26]

Thanks for linking your thread about help with ball joints. The pic of the rooted ball joint in that thread looks alarmingly similar to the ball joints currently on my girlfriends MPS6.

If you don't mind my asking, how much did it cost you to have both of your upper ball joints replaced?

[rogwick]

No worries, mine didn't look too flash either! My mechanic showed me them after and they just flap around freely lol. Glad I had both sides done. I honestly can't remember. My mechanic who doesn't work there any more was great and knew what he was doing and charged me reasonable prices. From a labor perspective, the wheels need to come off and dismantle the control arm upper control arm. Not sure about the rotors and everything. Best thing to do it ring up and ask for a quote if possible. They should have a fair idea how long it might take. Off memory it wasn't a lot. Think I had the ball joints and a full service carried out for around $300 give or take $40 bucks.

[JonBOY26]

Well I performed that ball joint test last night. I got my gf to sit in the car with the engine running and turn the wheel from one side to the other whilst I put a hand on top of the ball joint. I couldn't feel any clicking, clunking or grinding coming from either upper ball joint. They both felt smooth, however they do both still look rather collapsed.

So now I'm not too sure how to proceed. It would still be good to replace the upper ball joints, however given that popping out the ball joints requires a specific tool it would mean either replacing the entire upper control arms or having the ball joints themselves replaced by a mechanic.

As far as I see it I have 3 options:

(i) Buy replacement control arms (with bushes and ball joints pre-fitted) then install them myself, then get a wheel alignment.

(ii) Buy replacement control arms (with bushes and ball joints pre-fitted) then have a mechanic install them and perform a wheel alignment.

(iii) Buy all the replacement bushes and ball joints then have the mechanic fit them and perform a wheel alignment.

Option 1 would obviously be the cheapest however it requires that I'm up to the challenge. I'd also have to buy a torque wrench (~$60).

It's tough to tell which would be cheaper out of options 2 and 3 though. Buying complete control arms is more expensive then simply buying replacement bushes and ball joints, however swapping out complete control arms would be faster then servicing the bushes etc, as the mechanic would have to remove and install the new bushes and joints, which means more labour costs.

I think I'll have to do some ringing around to get some quotes for options 2 and 3.

[TimmyMPS]

Hi guys, not sure if I read it on a thread hear or somewhere elce but are the control arms on the MPS6 the same as a stock Mazda 6?

Looking to replace mine as I have the knock on right hand turns... looking into buying the complete set to fit myself.

[cletusb]

Hi guys, not sure if I read it on a thread hear or somewhere elce but are the control arms on the MPS6 the same as a stock Mazda 6?

Looking to replace mine as I have the knock on right hand turns... looking into buying the complete set to fit myself.

Looking at replacing my bushings very soon, has anyone been able to confirm they are the same as the normal 6?

[TimmyMPS]

Looking at replacing my bushings very soon, has anyone been able to confirm they are the same as the normal 6?

I got a set from the States shipped to the door both front sides for $250 fitted them myself, its a little hard to pop them out but it's not a hard job, you need to drop the engine a little to get the back arm out as the bolt didn't come clear without the extra clearance once you drop the engine a little. If your still looking I can get the part number I ordered. There is a sleev that you will need to reuse on the existing arm also. Happy to talk you through the job if needed.

[cletusb]

I got a set from the States shipped to the door both front sides for $250 fitted them myself, its a little hard to pop them out but it's not a hard job, you need to drop the engine a little to get the back arm out as the bolt didn't come clear without the extra clearance once you drop the engine a little. If your still looking I can get the part number I ordered. There is a sleev that you will need to reuse on the existing arm also. Happy to talk you through the job if needed.

Yeah still needs to be done, if you could grab the part number that would be great