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Thread: Tale of MPS 6 Transmission Woe's

  1. Unhappy Tale of MPS 6 Transmission Woe's

    Hi Folks,

    Hoping that one of you knowledgeable forum members can shed some light (and advice on my predicament)?

    Took my car into my usual garage that performs maintenance as they advised when servicing it last that it needed 2 new rear tyres and a rear brake caliper as the piston was sticking.

    Garage encountered problems when the newly sourced caliper arrived (aftermarket type, not Mazda) as apparently they are slightly different on the MPS models and the unit supplied didn't have the normal bracket/mounting point required (sorry, that's as much information as the garage gave me).

    Anyway as their aftermarket supplier could not source the correct type for the MPS the garage suggested that they get the original calipers re-built, so this is the route we took.

    On picking the vehicle up from the garage after the fitment of the 2 new rear tyres and the refurbished calipers the mechanic told me that the DCS, ABS, and TCS lights might flash for a little while and then after a few hundred miles (once the discs, new pads and calipers had all settled down) I would need to pop the vehicle back in so that they could check and centralize things. Anyway once I got out on the road the car felt terrible, all of the above lights flashing intermittently and the vehicle feeling like it was tracking with each wheel seeming to be competing against the other from time to time. After approximately 8 miles driving all 3 lights (along with the handbrake light) came on and as soon as this occurred the vehicle once again felt fine.

    I called the garage to let them know of my problems and they asked me to pop the vehicle back in to them whereupon following a quick inspection they 'held their hand up' and said that it was there problem as unfortunately whilst refitting the calipers they had positioned the ABS rear cabling loom too close to the rear drive/brakes and the cable loom had been unfortunately been severed due to friction.

    The vehicle ran and performed fine for around a week during which time I covered around 300 miles without ABS, DCS, TCS operating due to the wiring failure.

    I then returned the vehicle to the garage to have the damaged rear ABS loom wiring replaced. On leaving the garage all appeared fine (no lights flashing and all now off) although there was a very faint audible noise reminiscent of something rubbing but it was barely audible and although the vehicle didn’t seem as smooth as it had been before the loom had been replaced, it wasn’t really that bad.

    The vehicle covered around 15 miles before being parked up for a couple of days. On the 3rd day I covered around 50 miles during which a drumming and vibration started and got progressively worse. It was particularly prevalent when travelling between 20 - 35 mph and was definitely attributable to the drive train (the noise was still there even when dipping the clutch and allowing the engine revs to decrease to tick over). There was no evidence of the brakes dragging, or the discs getting hot but when the vehicle was allowed to stand stationary you could smell burning rubber and what smelt like hot brake fluid.

    As soon as this happened I returned the vehicle to the garage and on preliminary checking all they could find was that the inside tyre wall of the new rear tyres was warm, appreciably warmer than the outside edge of the tyres. As it was late in the day the garage asked that I leave the vehicle with them so that they could put the vehicle on the ramps and check it out fully the following day.

    Following close inspection they identified and informed me that the reasoning for the temperature differential between the inner/outer sidewall temperature was purely down to the close proximity between the rear exhaust boxes and the inner tyrewall. They also said that they would need to perform more tests to identify whether the problems were due to a failed/failing torque gearbox, drive shaft/s or rear axle.

    The vehicle has been with them now for approximately 2 weeks and whilst speaking to them today they advised that they have identified that the prop shaft bearing has failed and that they are trying to find a specialist repairer that can replace the centre bearing thus avoiding the £800 GBP cost of a new prop shaft (apparently they have been driving the vehicle without a prop shaft i.e. with only front wheel drive and everything seems fine, no noise, no lights etc. and have taken it to a specialist gearbox company who say that the problem is confined to the prop shaft bearing).

    I now await confirmation from the garage of what can be done; refurbish, or replace, the prop shaft and at what cost, having spoken to a few friends I am concerned over what might have created the problem in the first place and whether once a new/refurbished prop shaft is fitted and all 4 wheels are under drive whether the earlier problems will once again re-occur!

    It does seem strange that a car that was running and drove like a ''Swiss Watch'' has turned into a ''can or worms'' after the servicing/replacement of the rear calipers, pads and tyres.

    Any technical information or guidance that members of the club can provide on the likely cause and remedy to the above problems would be gratefully received because from where I now find myself; the garage has the car and seems to be struggling to effect a fix whilst at the same time suggesting that the problems they are experiencing are down to coincidence and not the work already carried out - I am not in a good position.

    Thanks,

    Mark B

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default

    Hey mate, I would look first at what was replaced as this would provide an indication of the problems you're now experiencing!

    First check that all four tyres are of the same diameter and air pressure (ok for fronts to be a couple psi higher) The AWD system on the MPS needs everything to the same and in sync.

    Secondly if the problem is still there after you've checked/changed tyres drive it with the handbrake pulled up a notch this will disable drive to the rear wheels, if the problem goes away when you do this you can safely say it is diff related (or incorrect tyre sizes)

    Lastly find another MPS6 owner with some knowledge to go down with you and suss it out - where are you based? From the mph in your thread and username are you UK or US

    Good luck with this.
    R36 - Just like an MPS6 except with a growly V6

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Bathurst
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    Default

    I think this is a question for Mal @kmh001.

    If he doesn't reply soon, i suggest sending him a PM.
    He is probably the most switched on here when it comes to the drive train of the 6 MPS

  4. Default

    Hi Guy's, Thanks for your replies.

    I am UK based and will send a PM to Mal if he doesnt reply later today - Thanks.


    The items that were changed were: reconditioned (original) rear disc calipers, new rear pads, 2 rear tyres with all of the discs being cleaned up/skimmed.

    I have changed front/rear tyres previously as it is usually the rears that wear out first and never experienced any problems before. The only thing that is slightly different this timearound is that I put 215/15R18Y Bridgestone RE050A tyres on the rear and already had part worn 215/45 18 Toyo T1 Sport tyres on the front.

    Cheers,


    Mark

  5. #5

    Default Tale of MPS 6 Transmission Woe's

    Hi Mark,

    That sounds dire, I hope you get it sorted out soon.

    Keep us up to date with what you find - it might help others.

    Good luck,
    Tim

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North side, Vic
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    37
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    6,745

    Default Re: Tale of MPS 6 Transmission Woe's

    If you put the hand brake up a single click and drive does the vibration stop?

    If you can source 4 wheels with similarly worn tyres and test drive does it behave the same?

    **edit - what shakes said lol

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #7

    Default

    Hey Mark, after reading your comprehensive first post I wonder if your repairer understands the 6MPS AWD system. Some of the things they have said just don't sound credible, eg the exhaust pipe causing a tyre temperature gradient.

    It sounds suspiciously like the repairer is going on a process of discovery learning at your expense.

    I've never heard of a prop shaft centre bearing failure on a 6 MPS. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that I've never heard of it. Unless the repairer can show you a centre bearing that is very obviously failed (eg there is grease everywhere with a mile of free-play), and assuming that the brake caliper and wiring loom issue has been properly repaired, I would suggest that your problem is more likely to be caused by the mismatched tyres.

    I say that simply because mismatched tyres is a very common cause of driveline problems on these cars due to the way the AWD system works. And the description of your problem sounds familiar.

    The owners manual states that all four tyres should be replaced at the same time.

    As shakes has already said, it's very easy to check for mismatched tyre diameter, just pull the handbrake up one click and go for a short drive. This will turn off the diff coupling and make the car FWD. If the binding and noises stop then your problem is obviously with the tyres rather than the prop shaft, which is mechanically connected to the gearbox through the transfer case (ie if the front wheels are turning the prop shaft is turning).

    The front to rear tyre diameter difference needs to be 4mm or less to avoid binding. As a temporary solution you can use tyre pressure to match the tyre diameter, however matching the tyres is really the only correct solution.

    Before spending money on the prop shaft i suggest eliminate tyres as the cause of your problem.

    Gone to Volvo


  8. Default

    Guy's,

    Many thanks for all your help ans suggestions but unfortunately things appear to have taken a turn for the worse and it sounds as though kmh001 may be right when suggesting that it sounds like my repairer is going on a "voyage of discovery" !! ;-(

    I chased them to find out how they were getting on in sourcing a suitable repairer who could tackle the replacement of the defective prop shaft bearing only to be told that they had now inspected the bearing on the prop shaft and re-greased it and could find no obvious defect! They had then removed the plug fitted to the rear differential and found that the oil was clean with no metal debris being evident in the lubricant. However when removing the plug from the transfer case they found that the oil is burnt and contamiated with metal debris!!!

    So now with everyone being shutdown for Christmas and the New Year over here in the UK the repairer has advised that it will be January 2nd before they can find a shop that is able to rebuild the transfer case.

    Surely given the sequence of events when I returned the vehicle to them complaining of a drumming noise and vibration coupled with the smell of burning rubber and a smell akin to hot brake fluid they would have checked the oil condition in the diff and transfer cases? !! I am really loosing confidence in this repair shops knowledge and ability to fix the MPS and return it to me in anything like it's original pre-repair state.

    Problem is that they have the vehicle in their shop and I am no expert.
    On learning (via phone) from the mechanic that the problem seems to have now switched from the prop shaft to the torque transfer box I said that as a result of the recent knowledge that I had amassed from talking to various people, surely this sequence of problems leading up to the damage of the drive train could be due to "torque wind-up" as a result of the vehicle wheel sensors detecting that the front wheels were rotating faster than the rear wheels (due to part worn/different front tyres) and therfore trying to brake the front wheels, but he was not receptive to my comments/thoughts.

    So I appear to be stuck with the vehicle at the repairers until the New Year with no clear indication of how much it will cost to put it right and when this will be done.

    Given that the garage does not appear to accept liability then I think I should probably talk to the trading standards people over here in the UK to check out what my rights are.

    I think (subject to the agreement of the trading standards folks) I should give the repairer the option of fully completing the repair of the vehicle at their own cost within 2 weeks from the beginning of the New Year (2nd January) and returning it to me, or alternatively I should tell them that I intend to have the vehicle collected from their premises and taken to a Mazda authorised dealer for repair following which I will present the full costs to them for reimbursement.

    As kmh001 infers looks like I am going to end up the "fall guy" in this situation and so I need to do my best to protect myself from unknown, unwarranted costs.

    If any forum members should have any alternate suggestions or ideas of how I can better handle this situation then I would be pleased to know.

    Thanks,

    Mark B

  9. #9

    Default

    I wouldn't assume the transfer case is stuffed just because there is some metal in the oil. Are we talking chunks of metal and broken gear teeth or the fine metal particles of normal wear and tear?

    I suggest one step at a time. First, get the repairer to put the car back together, pay them, take it home and put it down to experience. Then play with the tyre pressures to get the front and rear tyre diameter matched (use a ruler, not a pressure gauge). If this resolves the binding all you need to do is buy two new front tyres and have a reputable repairer change the transfer case oil. If you can afford it, change the gearbox, transfer case and rear diff oil with synthetic, your car will love you for it.

    However if after matching the tyre diameter the noise is still there it would be worth seeing a Mazda dealer to have the cause diagnosed by someone who knows how the car works. Maybe the transfer case is stuffed, but at least have that confirmed by a professional before spending more money.

    Gone to Volvo


  10. #10

    Default

    My 3rd gear slips alot. No reason why

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    6,745

    Default Re: Tale of MPS 6 Transmission Woe's

    Random hikack.. Start a new thread with details.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

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