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Thread: Operation: Tighta*** tune

  1. #1

    Default Operation: Tighta*** tune

    Hey guys,

    I was wondering if anyone could help me. I'm planning on doing some road tuning with my Mazda 6 MPS, which currently is only mildly modded (Hybrid T&F front mount, BNR Stage 1 turbo, Boost controller - stock boost, interceptor computer - untuned). I'm using an OBD-II scan tool reading the wideband AFR PID. It updates twice a second over bluetooth, but I'm thinking for the tune, I can use USB, which might give me 5 updates a second - enough for real time tuning.

    I want to create two maps - one for 98 RON fuels, and one for E10 fuels. I'm currently running fairly rich, especially on boost (Fairly visible black smoke behind me when I floor it), which ironically doesn't happen on E10. As all the 6 owners probably know, dyno time for a 4WD dyno isn't cheap, and enough dyno time for two maps is probably not going to give me much change from $1000.

    Long story short is that basically, with a kid on the way, the budget for dyno time is all of $0, so I'm planning to do a road tune using a combination of the OBD-II reader and the butt dyno.

    A friend of mine who used to own a tune shop, said that most cars will respond pretty well if you follow the following rules:

    16-17:1 for idle and low speed cruising
    14-15:1 for light acceleration without boost
    12-12.8:1 for any on boost conditions

    From what I know of previous cars, that sounds right, but the Mazda might not be like that due to differences in DISI engines? Don't know...

    Anyway, what I was hoping for was:

    1. Scans of AFRs against RPM on a dyno
    2. Any 2D "relative" fuel maps people might have, dumped from their own dyno tune
    3. Any 2D "relative" ignition maps people might have.

    Yes, I'm aware that every car is different, so I can't just blindly copy values, but it would at least give me an idea of which part of the map is a little too rich, which part is way too rich, any parts which might already be too lean, and where I can afford a bit more timing advance. My map will be fairly conservative - I'm not trying to get the most power out of this, just get a bit less black smoke, and a touch more power than I already have.

    Any help in this respect would be appreciated. Thanks!

  2. #2

    Default

    Wow, you are really playing with danger here.

    The MPS is not like alot of other boosted cars.

    With the DISI injection system, if you try and run the AFR values you have posted above, then you are going to see pieces of engine all over the road.

    11.8:1 is probably the leanest you want to see in a boost situation, and thats on 98 ron fuel. Dont even bother with E10 on a turbo car, thats a disaster waiting to happen.

    From a personal perspective, if you want a safe tune out of these cars, get a pro to do it, with proper tuning and monitoring software. As an option buy a Cobb Access Port and use one of their off the shelf tunes...They have a number of them for different levels of modding on our cars.

    There area large range of conditions you need to monitor and adjust, and alot of these affect other aspects of the ECU behaviour.

    At the end of the day its your call, being your car, but if you try shaving cost with an MPS, you are going to be out of pocket for a lot of money. This has been proven time and time again with blown motors.

    Just my two cents.
    Last edited by RadiantKnackers; 05-08-2012 at 11:59 PM.
    MPS is gone. Ghey Trail enabled....Not Happy. MPS 6 to come

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Canberra
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    9,459

    Default

    versatuner is another valid option...
    as @LittleredMPS said, thats a recipe for having a piston causing a nice big hole in your block
    nothing wrong with road tuning (im doing it)

    but here is my stage 2 OTS map dyno:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    here is fuel:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    ignition:
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    hope this gives you an insight into how nasty the road ahead for you is
    heck, im one of the first people to get an e-tune done... and i can tell you right now, there is a quirk or 3 with our ecu's...
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
    From stock, to GT3071, to substantially less modded, many lessons learned!
    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

  4. #4

    Default

    Hey LittleredMPS. Thanks for the advice. I know that every car is different, which is why I'm asking to see what others have done. My first tuned car was in 1998 - but I'm also aware that today's car is far more fragile the the Pulsars and Excels I used to play with back then. I'm also neither a "bucket tuner" (A little advance gave me a little power. MOAR ADVANCE!) nor a "Test to destruction engineer" (Okay, a little advance sounds fine. A little more. A little more. A little more.. Ping! Bang! A little too much...). As I said, I'll be happy getting rid of the black smoke and just a touch more power - Usually visible black smoke means you're at least in the low 11s, more likely high 10s region, so I have some room to play.


    @SarcasticOne - Perfect! Exactly what I needed - although I notice that on low load, the engine aims for stoichiometric the entire time. Is that part of the map perfectly stock? Although stoich is the theoretical point of most power, it's rare that it is in real life, as no sensor is perfectly accurate. For example - your commanded AFR at 5000rpm full load is 11.6, but your dynograph shows you never drop below 12. Has part throttle been tuned on that map, or were you/your tuner only tuning for full throttle power? I have to say though, the AFR and delivered power graphs look like you got a very good tune there.

    Thanks again - if anyone else has maps - especially adjustment/relative maps rather than absolute/commanded value maps, that would also be appreciated.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Canberra
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    Default

    dont think that area is completely stock, but it's about as close as you can get... off boost maps probably dont vary that much
    the line is between 11 and 12 AFR's, so it's almost bang on 11.6 for the most part
    part throttle has been tuned, and it's requesting close to 14.7 because it's damn easy for the car to get to those loads without even using the turbo charger...
    here's the boost table:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    EDIT: just realised i showed the closed loop table, here's the open loop one:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    as you can see in the OL table above, once it gets to a point where the turbo starts to kick in, it richens up very quickly....
    but this is also to do with how the car is tuned, and when it transitions from closed loop to open loop
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
    From stock, to GT3071, to substantially less modded, many lessons learned!
    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Canberra
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    Default

    if you REALLY want to get into the nitty gritty stuff:
    MPG Tooning with ATR - Mazdaspeed Forums
    460 posts of stuff there ^

    but on boost, you want it nice and rich, keeps the rods/pistons in the block... helps cool the hot air as well...

  7. #7

    Default

    Just had a look at that link you posted. Wow... If that fuel table is right, the guy is insane. 15 on idle, 17 on light throttle mid rpm, 14.7 on light throttle high rpm... So far so good - pretty much what I'd be expecting.

    14.7 full throttle low RPM? 14.1 full throttle redline? Is he insane?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Canberra
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    Default

    Could be running E85 as well...
    What I'm trying to hint at here is, maybe you shouldn't try to run as lean as possible, but try to keep car as safe as possible

    Right foot > tune

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by SarcasticOne; 06-08-2012 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #9

    Default

    Definitely not going to try for as lean as possible. Probably not even as lean as my friend suggested. If I do, I'll be moving in .1 or .2 increments, and being very careful to feel for any loss of power or misfires.

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