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Thread: Koni's vs Bilstein's

  1. #61

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    I think i may be responsible for taking this off on a tangent. But OP wants help with choosing a setup from the options he listed.....I say Tein. What says you? :-)

  2. #62
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudspec View Post
    Hmmmm, this is all very interesting. I have to say, Bilsteins are great in what ever they are in. although they may seem "soft to some" because the ride is plush, don't forget that you are actually getting more grip. Spring rates have a huge impact, and I believe I saw a comment that putting a new Shock absorber in raised the car.... errrrrrrm, the only way I can see that happening is if the old shocks were blown out and possibly bent, holding the car lower, and the new shock allowed the spring to do its job. . I also see the above mention Geometry. All road cars are designed and setup deliberately to Understeer, it is a safety condition for the design rules.
    As for Stiffer is better, not convinced, yes on a race track, for sure I can see a benefit, but for the road, as someone else has mentioned, It gets tedious and fatigueing everyday- been tere done that, My MPS is a Grand Tourer, great everysday and if I wanna take it to the track, it is still awesome and I can drive home at the end of it in comfort.
    In my experiences, If you really wanna go the whole hog, just go see MCA or DMS and get them to custom build a set of suspension for you. it will cost about 5k but you will never have an issue with it going off.
    Billies are built for Maximum compromise, great Sports feeling, but also great ride comfory. it is all in the valving, although it may seem a basic design, Ride tuning is a black art. and most the cheaper stuff is not tuned by a driver, it is just put on a shock dyno and in most cases the graphs are copied, which makes no comparison because we have in the past perfectly matched a dampler curve, but it felt like CRAP.
    just a bit of usesless info for ya- it took 3 years of chassis tuning to get an MPS 3 to a baseline setting, and a further 12-18 months of fine tuning to get it a good compromise. and dont forget it was setup in japan with a certain type of tyre and wheel package, which is not that well suited to Australian conditions.
    Anyways, nuff of my story book for now. hope you got some form of interest out of it.
    Agreed.
    The actual reason for the raising of the height with some aftermarket shocks is the spring perch is positioned ever so slightly different. Your right, shock length does not alter ride height.
    Firmer doesn't mean better handling, again, correct. Too firm you lose the advantage of being able to use the cars weight to improve grip. And as for on the road, ever hit a bump mid corner at speed?
    Scary stuff

    Like I've said a lot on this forum, suspension is all about compromise. And there is a fine line between right and wrong. Also what works for some doesn't work for others.
    Both dad and I have identical radio control race cars, yet totally different suspension set up, neither like eachother cars, yet on the track our lap times are near identical.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeine Fiend View Post
    My point is that proper suspension geometry and handling setup is more complicated than many people give credit. People spend careers learning this stuff.
    Some people spend careers learning this stuff an some people play with the setting so much they spend a lifetime trying to get it right

    I'm a tinkerer and I know because I can change it I would spend forever tinkering. Got it out of the way and stopped the urge!


    Peter "SLIXX"

    Snapped by Tangcla - FB Page
    Currently RaydTuned
    Lots of love from 2XS Racing & Dan's Garage Detailing

  4. #64
    Join Date
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    hunter valley
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    Quote Originally Posted by slixx View Post
    Some people spend careers learning this stuff an some people play with the setting so much they spend a lifetime trying to get it right

    I'm a tinkerer and I know because I can change it I would spend forever tinkering. Got it out of the way and stopped the urge!


    Peter "SLIXX"
    same.. I will play till i get it good BUT than keep playing to get it even better and bugger it up :P
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke 3mps View Post
    same.. I will play till i get it good BUT than keep playing to get it even better and bugger it up :P
    I know it's sounds stupid, but I don't have the technical knowledge to know what I'm changing and I know I'll be there for months and just when I think it's right I'll find something else and bugger it up

    It was 70% of my decision to go with a shock and spring package


    Peter "SLIXX"

    Snapped by Tangcla - FB Page
    Currently RaydTuned
    Lots of love from 2XS Racing & Dan's Garage Detailing

  6. #66

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    What about installing? I'm planning to install the units myself, taking extreme care to ensure both sides are identical and ride height is where I want it. I would then take it to a shop to get the geometry sorted. Apart from the car ending up +15mm on one side and -15mm on the other with different damp settings at each corner, do you think there are many pitfalls with my plans?

    As I said, I fully plan to take it to a shop to get the geometry sorted after installation.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Surrey Hills, Victoria
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    Quote Originally Posted by slixx View Post
    I know it's sounds stupid, but I don't have the technical knowledge to know what I'm changing and I know I'll be there for months and just when I think it's right I'll find something else and bugger it up

    It was 70% of my decision to go with a shock and spring package


    Peter "SLIXX"
    Doesn't sound stupid at all Pete. Being my daily drive I don't have time to spend faffing around with mine either. Completely understand
    Caff Mobile Mk1 - 2010 Aluminum Gen II | 2XS SRI | H&R Lowered Springs | cpe 75 Duro Engine Mount | Whiteline Rear Swaybar | Moog "Problem Solver" Rear Endlinks | 3M Carbon Black Tint | Lakin Custom Plates | Opti-Coat Paint Protection | Paint Correction by Me - SOLD

    Caff Mobile Mk2 - 2008 BMW Z4M Coupe - Sapphire Black Metallic | Stock....for now

  8. #68

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    So long as you take it to a reputable shop who knows what they are doing - not just one who says they do - I can't see any issues!

  9. #69

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    Plan it is then!! I reckon the DGR's will be ordered on monday then!! To be installed upon receipt!!!!

    Now I'm excited! Whilst I would love to get some bilsteins, teins etc, I think the DGR will be a great setup and I'm looking forward to a slightly more aggressive stance and feel!!!

    Cant wait!!!

    ---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

    Regarding my choice of coil over, price has driven it. I believe that the DGRS will provide best bang for the buck.

  10. #70

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    Let us know how you go! In for more info/review!

  11. #71

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    Will be more than happy to smokey!! I'll try and document the process as much as possible for you!!

    Cant wait to see these units!!

  12. #72
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sunshine Coast Qld
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    749

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    Back to fiveeight,s original query, both prices are fine ,just confirm they have stock here in Australia..
    FSD =latest valving technology (been proven) but complex ,dif driving conditions alter the frequency of dampening IE the faster you travel or turn into corner the frequency alters the flow of oil through the valves,thus either slowing or speeding up the resistance .

    Bistein = good old german know how, around for yonks (KISS principal "keep it simple stupid")

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Moorooka, Brisbane
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    I hang my head in shame reading this thread. My DGR's need some retuning. Car rides like poo at the moment. Too much faffing!

  14. #74

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    Haha. Faffing. Like someone previously mentioned, find someone who can corner weight - tell them what sort of clearance you want, they will do the rest. From there, it's just a matter of 'Faffing' your damper settings till you find the ride you like - I used to do this by adjusting one click a day on my way too and from work. Because I knew the road, it was a constant measure. Start hard - work back towards soft - its quicker.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    hunter valley
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    As long as you get the camber right on the front before installing. Everything else can be adjusted in car, will save u a few $$ by installing yourself. If your going coilovers ...

  16. #76

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    Your always going to have to get a professional wheel alignment with any suspension change regardless of if you put it in yourself....which includes camber obviously.

  17. #77

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    Wow, quite overwhelmed. Thanks all. I have gone with the Bilsteins. $1063 delivered from a company called Tuff Car Parts. They are in Melb, so with a bit of luck I'll have them before the weekend and in the car by beer o'clock on Sunday.

    There has been some debate about ride hight, so ill take some before and after pics to compare.

    I've also got a Whiteline Anti Lift Kit about to be added also, so with the springs and Whiteline Swaybars I think I can say suspension mods are just about done!

    Can anyone give me tips or pointers to look out for when changing the shocks? Or are they a pretty basic setup and straight forward swap? It's been a few years since my last experience and it was on a very different car!

    TK

  18. #78
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    hunter valley
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveight View Post
    Wow, quite overwhelmed. Thanks all. I have gone with the Bilsteins. $1063 delivered from a company called Tuff Car Parts. They are in Melb, so with a bit of luck I'll have them before the weekend and in the car by beer o'clock on Sunday.

    There has been some debate about ride hight, so ill take some before and after pics to compare.

    I've also got a Whiteline Anti Lift Kit about to be added also, so with the springs and Whiteline Swaybars I think I can say suspension mods are just about done!

    Can anyone give me tips or pointers to look out for when changing the shocks? Or are they a pretty basic setup and straight forward swap? It's been a few years since my last experience and it was on a very different car!

    TK
    http://www.thespeedline.us/servlet/t...t-Lower/Detail Look at this too

    This is the difference between Gen1 and Gen2 in rear shocks

    The gen 2 doesnt have the longer steel bush through the rubber.

    If you get the rear shocks i have you have to cut/shortn the bottom bush Bilsteins have long bush like the gen1 shock. Pics for ref

    Not sure if you needed to use bump stop with bilsteins but i did, i had to cut a larger hole through the bump stop because of larger piston dia..
    Last edited by RedDjinn; 02-05-2012 at 06:21 PM.
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveight View Post
    Can anyone give me tips or pointers to look out for when changing the shocks? Or are they a pretty basic setup and straight forward swap? It's been a few years since my last experience and it was on a very different car!
    TK
    follow the factory service manual for installation. installing the rears is easy. the front is fairly straight forward as well. when getting the shock out of the knuckle, I screwed the bottom bolt in backwards against a screwdriver to pry the seat open. do the same when inserting the new shock. Reuse the front dust boots from the stock shocks. It annoyed me they didn't provide these from factory

    dont need to reuse front bump stops as they are contained within the shock. I cut the rear bump stops about 1inch (from the top if I recall), just enough so the last ring holds the dust boot in place

    make sure you have a good allen key to use on top of the front shocks. my mate let it slip and stripped the inside which caused a bit of headache. surprised how soft the metal was...

    If you havent already, get some new strut top bearings. you may as well change these out as they will eventually wear and fall apart. I changed my suspension at 30000km and the bearings where already stuffed...

    The service manual says to undo the tie rod end, but its not required. This was all on a gen 1 but I'm sure its the same for gen2
    Last edited by lup15; 02-05-2012 at 06:30 PM.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Moorooka, Brisbane
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    48
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    A while back I spoke to Ryan @projectrracing about setting my car up. Says if I throw him the keys he can tell me what I can do to improve it.

    Well done on the purchase though, we look forward to some updates.

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