Koni's vs Bilstein's

[MattMPS3]

I have the H&R coilovers which are pretty much a Bilstein shock ( inverted) coupled with H&R springs, they are probably one of the softer coilovers available (still a pretty firm ride), and also offer ride height adjustment.

[SMOKEY]

Yeh - i'm aware of how coilovers ride - I've fitted JIC Gold, D2 (terrible), Tein and Greddy (fantastic) fitted to cars in the past. I've aso replaced a set of coilovers with Bilsteins, and yeh they rode well and took alot to upset them, but pretty soft and my gaurds used to rub on the wheels a fair bit where as they didnt with coilovers.

Just doesn't seem to be a lot of people running them on here, and when I search for them the only ones I generally see are the BC's (hit n miss depending on car), H&R (expensive) and KW (super expensive but supposedly awesome!)!

[Bakis]

KW aren't to great for the price. For stance and great track work/enthusiastic i love coilovers, i'm 100% positive a B8's and good spring set will match coilovers for road driving (handling) but on a track i doubt it, and also you cant get very low with springs compared to coils.

But its personal choice... for me comfort is the second lowest thing i care for lol.

[Caffeine Fiend]

But its personal choice... for me comfort is the second lowest thing i care for lol.

That's because you're still young and your back hasn't gone to shite yet

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Bakis]

^ this is 100% correct lol.

If i start doing alot of driving on shit roads may swap them out but will see

[MattMPS3]

Did anyone really buy an MPS because they wanted a comfortable ride

[lup15]

although this isnt a coilover vs shock discussion, for cars that live 100% on the street, imo coilovers are overkill and would be purely for aesthetics. and if this is the case, then suspension performance is not what you are trying to achieve.

If you think a stiff ride makes the car handle better on the street, then you must live on the most perfect roads. Having said that, if you setup coilovers correctly, they can certainly be used on the street. But the knowledge and having the capability within the coilover to adjust bound, rebound and spring rates would be something most wouldn't have. As its been said, suspension tuning is an art form

[SMOKEY]

Best leave it to the experts then and order off the shelf!

I have had some shocking coilover experiences.....like you said, aside from aesthetics and perfecting your ride height to a mm - its largely a compromise.

I'll be happy to follow suit with shocks and springs!

Carry on chaps!

[Alan]

Ok so im confused! The bilstein/eibach package is NOT a coilover setup? I get it that the rear is not a traditional coilover but the B8's with the eibach springs?

I get the bit about adjustability, is this basically the difference with Coilovers to shock/spring setup?

[bd581]

Well technically (in the case of the MPS 3 because it has mcpherson strut suspension) doesn't matter what you fit, its always going to be coilover in the front.
"Coilover" is exactly what it says coil over the shock.
What most call a coilover, they really mean adjustable coilover.

[MattMPS3]

My mental picture of a coil over is a threaded strut body, height adjustment rings, and small springs.

The rear on the MPS3 cant be technically classified as coil over due to its design, the spring and the shock are in two different locations, in the case of the H&R coilovers, ride height adjustment is made at the spring with their supplied threaded adjustable perches.

[Alan]

Yeah ok! Thats what i thought.

Right chaps (And Chapettes!) Heres my options:
1. DGR's from 2XS $1099
2. BC V1's From Justjap $1149
3. Koni Sports & King springs from GSL $1216
4. Tein Street Basis from Performance Fulcrum $1198 approx.

Im leaning towards the DGR's from troy but would be very interested in anyones thoughts.

I use the car on the road its not for the track at all. That being said, I LOVE driving the thing and am not fussed by an increase in stiffness. Im after better handling and a more exciting ride. I dont want something thats going to break whenever i hit a shit patch of road (of which there are a few here in the northern suburbs of melbourne)........

What you all think?

---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

As you can tell, my budget is pretty much capped at the $1200 mark. I would go a nice non adjustable route but it must be stiffer and better handling than std and maybe drop it just a touch. (Not too much!!)

[SMOKEY]

I would go the Teins. I have had good experiences, they ride pretty nice - not too harsh - and some you can fit the EDFC to, which means you get full ride adjustability on the fly which is very cool. Not sure which models are compatible. Teins can be rebuilt here in Australia by Fulcrum, so you get excellent value over an infinite life span, where as other coilovers are basically rooted once they blow - and they will. Teins are also one of only two coilovers that are ADR compliant - Pedders being the other brand - so no legal issues!

Pretty strong case I reckon!

[Caffeine Fiend]

The only thing I have against the adjustable "coil over" type setup is it can be too easy to fiddle with and mess up your suspension settings if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

If you're not going to track the car often and don't have the time and knowledge to fiddle with your setup to the nth degree, any performance advantage gained by adjustable suspension over and above a good spring/coil setup would be marginal at best, with the very real possibly of being much worse if incorrectly adjusted.

Bear in mind this is purely my opinion. As with all the other posts here, this is a very subjective thing and there is technically no right answer.

In terms of out and out handling, I would also budget for a larger adjustable rear sway bar. They're not expensive (a few hundred dollars) and a rear sway bar can be fitted fairly easily with basic tools. On the 3 MPS it doesn't need to necessarily be professionally installed. This will help with lessening cornering understeer and further assist in keeping the car flatter through the corners

Dan

[EX-XR6T]

I know ive come in late to this thread and I cant comment on the best setup for our MPS3's but i can comment on having owned Bilsteins before. I had a 'matched' set installed into my VL and they were the bomb! lasted 12 years and did alot of hard k's, and with the car loaded with weight at times aswell.
If they are setup right from the start (matched to your car) they will serve you very well. Would definatly buy again if i wanted to upgrade the shocks in my car.

[shr3da]

The only thing I have against the adjustable "coil over" type setup is it can be too easy to fiddle with and mess up your suspension settings if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

If you're not going to track the car often and don't have the time and knowledge to fiddle with your setup to the nth degree, any performance advantage gained by adjustable suspension over and above a good spring/coil setup would be marginal at best, with the very real possibly of being much worse if incorrectly adjusted.



Dan

Seeing as most coilovers are only damper adjustable it's hard to f shit up. You don't need to know a lot about it just one way makes it hard other way makes it soft.


In my opinion is the best option for a street car as you can turn them up when you go the the track for sagnifocantly improved handling.

Blistein, ohlins, kw and Teins pick one. Forget the rest.

[Caffeine Fiend]

Seeing as most coilovers are only damper adjustable it's hard to f shit up. You don't need to know a lot about it just one way makes it hard other way makes it soft.

That's your opinion Ben and I personally don't agree. There is also adjustability of ride height to consider (as many of these setups have height adjust ability) and how that interacts in concert with damper settings and spring rates in order to obtain the best balance that ensures maximum contact patch in most situations. Even that is still very simplistic.

My point is that proper suspension geometry and handling setup is more complicated than many people give credit. People spend careers learning this stuff.

[bd581]

Dan is 100% correct.
Just a small example, adjust ride night and you also end up adjusting, droop, down travel, toe, toe out in turns, sway bar angles, travel, balance.
I completely agree with Dan. More adjustment you have, more chance you have of getting it completely wrong. Which is much more likely than getting it right.
Just look at how often even the professional engineers get it wrong when setting up race cars.

[Spudspec]

Hmmmm, this is all very interesting. I have to say, Bilsteins are great in what ever they are in. although they may seem "soft to some" because the ride is plush, don't forget that you are actually getting more grip. Spring rates have a huge impact, and I believe I saw a comment that putting a new Shock absorber in raised the car.... errrrrrrm, the only way I can see that happening is if the old shocks were blown out and possibly bent, holding the car lower, and the new shock allowed the spring to do its job. . I also see the above mention Geometry. All road cars are designed and setup deliberately to Understeer, it is a safety condition for the design rules.
As for Stiffer is better, not convinced, yes on a race track, for sure I can see a benefit, but for the road, as someone else has mentioned, It gets tedious and fatigueing everyday- been tere done that, My MPS is a Grand Tourer, great everysday and if I wanna take it to the track, it is still awesome and I can drive home at the end of it in comfort.
In my experiences, If you really wanna go the whole hog, just go see MCA or DMS and get them to custom build a set of suspension for you. it will cost about 5k but you will never have an issue with it going off.
Billies are built for Maximum compromise, great Sports feeling, but also great ride comfory. it is all in the valving, although it may seem a basic design, Ride tuning is a black art. and most the cheaper stuff is not tuned by a driver, it is just put on a shock dyno and in most cases the graphs are copied, which makes no comparison because we have in the past perfectly matched a dampler curve, but it felt like CRAP.
just a bit of usesless info for ya- it took 3 years of chassis tuning to get an MPS 3 to a baseline setting, and a further 12-18 months of fine tuning to get it a good compromise. and dont forget it was setup in japan with a certain type of tyre and wheel package, which is not that well suited to Australian conditions.
Anyways, nuff of my story book for now. hope you got some form of interest out of it.

[shr3da]

Sorry i should have elaborated more, take your car to somewhere have it set up proplerly, corner weighted, spring preload, height adjusted ect. Then all you adjust is damper, which is not going to influence height, alignment toe ect. Works for me.