InterCOOLers Anyone?

[shinslinger66]

Right.

One of my next mods with be an intercooler- what i would like to know is peoples thoughts on Top mount V's Front mount.

Front Mount def looks horn...but comes with a huge price increase.

From what i have read there is not really anything in performance between to two (if you know otherwise chime in).

For people who have either, tell us what your experiences have been like- such as was there a noticeable performance improvment?

Discuss...and no fighting (a bit is ok...just no kicking in the nuts).

[magoo]

I have the 3.25" ETS TMIC (dont buy 3.5 it rubs) . This Cooler is a 15-30min swapover, no modifying of any bodywork or trimming to fit.

If I were going to go larger turbo etc I would 100% go for the CP-E FMIC but if staying with a tune and some add ons like TBE etc the TMIC upgrade is great. I have a slightly noticeable increase in performance and a slight reduction in heat soak. Do not expect earth shattering increases in performance from an intercooler upgrade, the increased hp comes from a boost increase due to pressure drop and temp diffs.

Also note that there are some new TMIC options available via some US mazdaspeed forums, these include some water to air coolers that are really efficient (show much better temp drops than any air to air).

Cheers Aaron

[shinslinger66]

Thanks- I have been watching the W2A thread- looks great.

Does anyone in Aus have a W3A setup on their MPS?

[magoo]

None that I know of. Check a US mazdaspeed forum for pics and info, they have a group buy on at this moment.

[MISSMPS]

I want a fmic!!!!!!!!

[racebitz]

I will be making up a W2A setup for my 3, have gone the FMIC route for the time being as it was a cheaper option and was keen for the challenge (Making it up ourselves, no off the shelf on this car..) That way i can do a direct comparissin aswell.

You cannot compete with a well designed ans setup W2A cooler, no comparisson really in the end. My setp will incorperate an ice box for the strip aswell. Prob some time in the early new year.

I will throw up a few pics of the front mount setup on here soon. Almost finnished the piping.

[shinslinger66]

The guy with the W2A Intercooler blew his engine?

[magoo]

The guy with the W2A Intercooler blew his engine?

It appears so. I wouldnt be blaming the cooler though. These US cars run a few ghetto mods and dont tend to do a lot of dyno based tuning. The guys
W2A cooler is a work of art though.

[lazydog]

I run a CorkSport FMIC with CAI.

Great value for money, and works better than a TMIC.

It's the best value for money mod going around!

If you have a bit more money to throw around, I would go with the CPE FMIC & CPE CAI, but seriously the CorkSport system is great, and im really happy with it!

[Nuliaj]

It really depends on how much you want to spend and how far you're going to take your modding. The ETS TMIC is definately better than stock, and being a straight swap, there is no increase in lag. The FMIC which will get better airflow, will be less affected by heatsoak, but will experience more lag due to longer piping. There is no clear cut winner imo, otherwise almost everyone would go for it. You need to do some cost benefit analysis. For me the benefits of being able to do the swap in 30 minutes and being reasonably affordable outweighed the hassle, cost, and performance benefits of the FMIC. You not feel the same way however.

[lazydog]

BTW just saw the turboXS one, they run the turbo inlet pipe over the engine! CRAZY, it would defeat the whole purpose of an intercooler as the pipe would heat back up over the top of the head!

[Queef]

I am running the TurboXS fmic setup, have done so for a while now, it was a great power adding mod, with only one tiny black plastic trim tab having to be cut out to fit it, totally undetectable if you returned to stocko.

Yes the hot pipe does flow straight over the engine, but, where do you think the top mounted intercooler sits lazydog? Comparing the tmic placement, where a cooling device with massive surface area is sitting on top of a hot engine for cooling purposes to having a single pipe crossing the engine is silly, its a massive design improvement.

There is simply not enough room in the engine bay to run it anywhere else, the design is great, it all bolted in with ease and is fairly good quality.

As for turbo lag, its laughable, really not noticeable at all, the pros far far far outweigh the cons for this mod.

My two cents.

[Birdhouse]

I agree with Queef. I drive two cars; one with a top mount (Colorado) and one with side mount (Skyline). I have to say the top mount feels a lot hotter than the side mount after hard drives. Direct air flow makes all the difference. I was told once that the reason for the top mount (ie WRX) was the risk of damage in rallies??

As for the crossover pipe, hi temp exhaust wrap does the trick. Keeps the hot air out and cool air in. It doesn’t look very good though......

[Nuliaj]

If you've ever felt the TMIC immediately after a decent drive, it's actually quite cold. There have been times I've come home lifted the bonnet and found the TMIC so cold I thought it was hot initially. Sure you will get some hight BATs when the car is stationary or not moving fast, but once the car is moving at a decent speed, I can't see the BAT difference between a TMIC and FMIC being more than a couple of degrees different. Logs would be nice

For the price difference though, I can name a few mods that would give better gains - DP, test pipe and intake, flash tune.

[Queef]

All of which I have!

Fmic will never heat soak imho, putting a cooling device on top of the hottest part of the car doesnt make sense to me. I know it works to a limited degree, but fmics are a better design methinks.

[Nuliaj]

Which is my point. I'm kinda directing this at people who have just started modding rather than shin. The FMIC is one of the last things I'd do in terms of cost/benefit. If you've done everything else and feel you need that bit more, then by all means go ahead and get a FMIC. If however you're just starting, or don't want to spend that much money, I would not recommend a FMIC. I personally don't like the FMIC look and having the pipes run over the engine looks strange to me. Again personal preferences will most likely decide this for most people.

One thing most people don't bring up is how are engine (coolant) temperatures affected by the inclusion of a FMIC. Surely with interrupted flow and higher air temps going past the radiator, the car is running slightly hotter? I dunno, does anyone have ECT logs?

[racebitz]

The setup you run should be based on what you do with your car.

Start with the top mount,its basic, straight swap over and time/Money are saved, buut it suffers greatly from heat soak, no denying that. So if you spend a lot of time in your car sitting still, it isnt goin to be the best idea. Yes it will cool down again once you start to cruise along, more so than other top mount cars due to the great induction setup we have, but as stated its only efficient at speeds. Soooo,

Daily duties - Yeah, but not the best in traffic or short bursts
Track work - Yes, once your going will work well
Drags - Not happy Jan, by the time you line up, do a burnout or drive through, stage up and take off your cooler is cooked, intake temps are high as cypress hill, and the core is only starting to cool down when your at the end of the strip... Even if you sit a bag of ice on it while lining up like i did...

Front Mount, this involves a fair whack more work for the install, is quite expensive if your buying a kit from the states (At these exchange rates are you crazy??) The MPS is restricted for spacing in the bay, and we are pretty much stuck with running the piping work one way (Believe me i tried others...) This causes the Hot side piping to run close to the cold.. The benefit is, unlike the top mount, it doesnt suffer from great heat soak as it is sitting in pretty much ambient temps apart from some radient heat from the radiator. Its doesnt rely on ducting to source cool air as it sits directly in the path so if it does get hot, it cools down almost instantly when you get moving. Sooo,

Daily duties - Yes, if you can outlay the extra cash, and dont mind getting your hands dirty its a great mod for the car. I wont go into this too much as i explained it above pretty well.
Track Work - Great stuff, this setup is perfect for track work as the car is in motion the whole time pretty much, so there is a steady flow of air through the core at all times. Only downside is that the core is easily dammaged if you have a knock in the front end.
Drags - Yeah, it has no problems here either, maybe not super efficient on the start line as withe top mount, but as stated before, the cores position allows it to shed the heat quickly and allow the cooler to do its job.

And last but not least the W2A (water to air) cooler. For those who may be un aware or what this is or how it works, think of it as a intercooler core enclosed in a sealed box. Inside the box is water that is pumped around and flows over the outside of the core (as air does on the above mention coolers). This water is usually pumped through the systems own radiator, usually fairly small so it cools, just like for your engine. you also have the oportunity to have along the lines a ice box,i will go into the a bit more later. As you may know, water is a great absorber of heat, so as the water is flowing over the core, it not only cools it down, but draws out the heat also. You will also benefit from very short inlet track. But with these great pro's, does come with some con's, this setup is prob the most involved of them all, unless you are buying a kit to suit your car specifically (Good luck unless you own a diesel patrol or something..) it is goin to be a custom job, which means a lot of works for you, most trial and error, or a big fat bill for all the labour involved if you pay someone for the job. The other few downsides would be the space reuired to mount the core, and the added weight of the water used, usually a few litres at least.

Daily duties - Yes it will do fine, fair enough the water being pumped around will not be getting cooled very much though its radiator while in traffic, but it will still absorb heat, and as with the front mount, will disipate the heat very quickly once moving.
Track Work - Once again, no real issues here, poss the added weight wont help your lap times...
Drags - This my friend is where this system comes into its own. As mentioned above, you can add in a ice box to the water lines. Basically cut into the water lines a sealed box, fill it with ice slurry pump this ice cold water over your core and their you have it, inlet temps below ambient on the start line, and great inlet temps fron start to finnish. You cannot achieve this even closely with any of the other 2 setups....

So their you have it, a basic run down as i see it anyway. i hope this helps someone in their decision on whats best for them, my apologies for such a long post tho ha ha.

Some of you may be aware we are in the middle of making up and fitting a front mount setup to my daily driver 3MPS, this is mearly a base to work from as i ultimatly will go with a W2A setup when i can source a decent core for a decent price, i will be doing some testing and will be able to give figures and gains from both, which i will post up for everyone who's interested.

My advice would be, try something different, it may cost more $$ and take longer to start with but you will come up with something that suits YOUR car and YOUR driving style, not someone elses....

Jason

[Nuliaj]

^ What he said

[lazydog]

Yes the hot pipe does flow straight over the engine, but, where do you think the top mounted intercooler sits lazydog? Comparing the tmic placement, where a cooling device with massive surface area is sitting on top of a hot engine for cooling purposes to having a single pipe crossing the engine is silly, its a massive design improvement.

All i was trying to say was if your going to select a FMIC setup, you should get a cpe or corksport, or any system that doesnt run the inlet pipe over the block.

You want to run more efficiently, not run the same temp as a TMIC.

my 2 cents.

[Queef]

The Corksport design puts the entire inlet area over the block itself. The shortest path for an intercooler is the best, having a pipe run over the engine imho has negligible temperature effects on the efficiency of the intercooler itself......