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Thread: turning off DSC AND ABS

  1. #21
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    I shouldn't need to say this - but any of these modifications or disabling of safety features is to be done at your own risk. Those features are there for a reason.

    /disclaimer

  2. #22
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    And I also should mention that if I didn't have ABS enabled, my car would now be a blend of MPS and WRX...so I never disable my DSC or TCS or anything.

    When you come that close...you realise how much you rely on these systems

  3. #23
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    I disconnected this plug for awhile. It's a better drive when its on.

    I have tried the button... Again it's better on. It does seem more responsive but to much wheelspin at speed..

    Just my opinion

  4. #24

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    eeewwww all your cars have aids....... eeeewwwww

  5. #25

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    [YOUTUBE]vfOQ3O4kD3I[/YOUTUBE]

  6. #26

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    I don't quite understand the argument that ABS stop you quicker. It does not. It allows you to maintain control of the car and perform direction changes etc.

    Around a track, ABS is not wanted. It's better to pinch a brake for a moment or two than to to have ABS kick in an extend your stopping further, pushing you deep/wide into a corner.

    Even under heavy braking at the track, an experienced driver doesn't regularly get the ABS to kick in. The maximum braking performance is achieved right before lockup and ABS will only engage once a wheel is locked.

    Problems start when you are heavy on brakes and then you begin to turn in (see above re rotation). Weight shifts to the outside wheel, which can at times cause the inside front to lock, which ABS thinks it is smarter than you. Suddenly, the wheel that is carrying that majority of the braking and turning now is going through the throws of brake/release/brake... not real good.

    Don't confuse the ABS that was in an F1 car to anything that is like what is present in a road car. Not the same kettle of fish. It's like saying my car should be as quick as a 787B because Mazda made both of them...

    Enough of ABS.

    I did the tests recently on a track day (acknowledging that you cannot switch off ABS & that I wasn't going to pull the fuse) between DSC on and off. Definitely quicker with it OFF.

    DSC kills you when you are trail braking into a corner to increase your rotation, get onto the loud pedal and everything goes dead cause the car thinks that it is in some kind of slide. This is not related to the steering angle sensor cutting in. I'm talking a 3rd gear 85-90km/h corner (turn 2 @ Wakefield).

    I haven't noticed any appreciable difference between the "normal" DSC OFF mode vs the startup sequence mode. Certainly no track difference, but then I never got below 3rd. Traction was still an issue for me, I was struggling to get enough power down in 3rd between 7 and 8, and still struggled in 4th through turn 9... Sway bars, I need sway bars...!

  7. #27

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    I turn of the DSC on the Genki every so often.....its fun in the wet..

    I have had to really on my ABS twice in 12mths and one was cause ogf a traffic issue on Victoria Rd one day......but the first time was on my first cruise along the Old Pacific Hwy with some MPS3 guys and required the assistance of the ABS into one corner as I caught upto a MPS3 very quickly while he was baulked by a slow vehicle.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    I don't quite understand the argument that ABS stop you quicker. It does not.
    Line 2 cars of the same type up, 100km/h, both brake at a line, one with ABS the other without, I will bet you any amount of money that the one with ABS will stop quicker.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    Around a track, ABS is not wanted. It's better to pinch a brake for a moment or two than to to have ABS kick in an extend your stopping further, pushing you deep/wide into a corner.
    If you read my post before I said you brake heavily in the straight before a corner. Braking while in a corner is reducing the traction you could use for accelerating and cornering.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    The maximum braking performance is achieved right before lockup and ABS will only engage once a wheel is locked.
    Correct, but do you think you can consistently maintain that point better than a computer which in the millisecond it detects brake lock releases and does this multiple times a second essentially maintaining that fine line?

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    Problems start when you are heavy on brakes and then you begin to turn in (see above re rotation). Weight shifts to the outside wheel, which can at times cause the inside front to lock, which ABS thinks it is smarter than you. Suddenly, the wheel that is carrying that majority of the braking and turning now is going through the throws of brake/release/brake... not real good.
    See previous comments, braking heavily while already in a corner is not the fastest way around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    Don't confuse the ABS that was in an F1 car to anything that is like what is present in a road car. Not the same kettle of fish. It's like saying my car should be as quick as a 787B because Mazda made both of them...
    Not at all, but the point is it's a technological advantage that provides consistent braking performance, and anyone who knows anything about racing knows that consistency is everything.

    I'm gonna stop talking about ABS now.
    Nuliaj: Hatches are only really half a car anyway.
    shinslinger66: And you forgot to add that they are also a girls car!

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuliaj View Post
    Line 2 cars of the same type up, 100km/h, both brake at a line, one with ABS the other without, I will bet you any amount of money that the one with ABS will stop quicker.
    If you put two retards of equal skill in a car and do the test, then yes, the ABS car will likely stop first. Your assumption is that the other car is locked up the whole time.

    Do a second test from 180km/h and see how long it takes ABS to pull you up. You might be surprised.

    If you read my post before I said you brake heavily in the straight before a corner. Braking while in a corner is reducing the traction you could use for accelerating and cornering.
    Do some reading (and practice the application) on trail braking. I'm not talking about jumping on the brakes mid corner. I'm talking heavy braking in mostly a straight line, then feathering the brakes whilst initiating the turn-in. This is what allows the rear end to rotate around, allowing you to get MORE power down sooner.

    ... do you think you can consistently maintain that point better than a computer ...
    This is where we start getting into semantics. On a track, yes, I think I can manage it just fine. On the street, I'd rather have the ABS there (because "surprises" happen on the street, they tend not to on the track).

    See previous comments, braking heavily while already in a corner is not the fastest way around it.
    See previous points again regarding rotation. It's pretty clear that you have the general theory of "brake in a straight line" down. Go and apply it on a track, then have somebody show you how you can pull another couple of seconds off your lap time by maximising your braking.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    If you put two retards of equal skill in a car and do the test, then yes, the ABS car will likely stop first. Your assumption is that the other car is locked up the whole time.
    It's not about retards of equal skill because as we know, even in F1 and V8 Supercar races drivers lock up their brakes under heavy braking and these are the best drivers in the world. It is about consistency.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    Do a second test from 180km/h and see how long it takes ABS to pull you up. You might be surprised.
    Whether it's 100km/h or 180km/h or 300km/h, ABS will be faster by the sheer nature that human beings just cannot modulate the brakes as fast as a computer can.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    Do some reading (and practice the application) on trail braking. I'm not talking about jumping on the brakes mid corner. I'm talking heavy braking in mostly a straight line, then feathering the brakes whilst initiating the turn-in. This is what allows the rear end to rotate around, allowing you to get MORE power down sooner.
    We're not talking about trying to slow down now, we're talking about weight transfer. If you're feathering the brakes, it's not going to kick off the ABS anyway (unless you've destroyed your tires).

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce_ View Post
    See previous points again regarding rotation. It's pretty clear that you have the general theory of "brake in a straight line" down. Go and apply it on a track, then have somebody show you how you can pull another couple of seconds off your lap time by maximising your braking.
    I agree that because of the infinite number of lines you can take on any given track, that some people might prefer to go in harder into a corner and brake midway, controlling their speed that way and carrying a higher speed through the corner. Others might go in slower and start accelerating earlier powering out of the corner at higher speeds. It depends on the type of car (weight, power, rwd/fwd/awd), the cars around you and your driving style + personality. If we're talking about any type of racing where it's a decent length or endurance racing, then tire management starts to play a part in which case you generally don't want to be using ABS on purpose, but it could save you that one time you lose focus or misjudge a corner. FYI I have been gokarting for a long time now.

    Ok no more ABS from me lol
    Nuliaj: Hatches are only really half a car anyway.
    shinslinger66: And you forgot to add that they are also a girls car!

  11. #31
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    When I was learning to drive my Dad said one thing which has always stuck with me:

    "Son, you could be the best driver in the world. It will be some other dic$head thats causes you to crash"

    Turn it off on the track, have a ball, but please please dont lose it one a corner when driving to work and injure/kill somone.

  12. #32

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    I agree with Bruce here and the rest who believe ABS can be a hindrance on track.

    ABS is not designed to stop a car in the shortest distance but to avoid uncontrollable skid in emergency situations. Situation which would only occur on public roads. It basically allows the driver to mash onto the brakes as hard as they can or what ever their instinct tells them to do, and by not allowing the front wheels to lock up, steering inputs are not comprised.

    Hard braking in emergency is completely different to hard braking on the track. In emergency situations, you body is USUALLY not braced or in the optimum position. In the event of something / someone cuts you off and you slam on the brakes by instinct, as your car pulls to a stop, you body weight shifts forward due to inertia. At that point, you really have three points of contact from stopping your body moving forward. These are your hands on the steering wheel and your right foot on the brake pedal. Your forward motion has nowhere to go except through the brake pedal. This in turn will apply more force into the brakes. In a non ABS equipped car, this extra force could be the difference between locking and not locking up the fronts.

    Once locked up, you lose steering input and if whatever you’re trying to avoid is in front of you, your car has no other way in avoiding it except IF your car pull up in time.

    In that situation, probably not a lot of people out there could modulate the brakes back to a point to gain control as fast or efficiently as ABS would and swerve around the obstacle.

    On the track however, it’s a completely different scenario. The driver comes into corner knowing when the breaking point is and the amount required. Usually the left foot is hard on the foot rest pushing the body back against the seat, this is why bucket seats the harnesses help, and only taking the left foot off the foot rest to change gears.

    ABS takes the ‘feel’ away from the pedal and will always tries to modulate the modulator. You’ll find you’re always trying to fight against the computer and it’ll slow you down.

    Sooo in conclusion, ABS and DSC could save your life on the streets, but could cost you be a few tenths on the track........ or sometimes even seconds.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdhouse View Post
    I agree with Bruce here and the rest who believe ABS can be a hindrance on track.

    ABS is not designed to stop a car in the shortest distance but to avoid uncontrollable skid in emergency situations. Situation which would only occur on public roads. It basically allows the driver to mash onto the brakes as hard as they can or what ever their instinct tells them to do, and by not allowing the front wheels to lock up, steering inputs are not comprised.

    Hard braking in emergency is completely different to hard braking on the track. In emergency situations, you body is USUALLY not braced or in the optimum position. In the event of something / someone cuts you off and you slam on the brakes by instinct, as your car pulls to a stop, you body weight shifts forward due to inertia. At that point, you really have three points of contact from stopping your body moving forward. These are your hands on the steering wheel and your right foot on the brake pedal. Your forward motion has nowhere to go except through the brake pedal. This in turn will apply more force into the brakes. In a non ABS equipped car, this extra force could be the difference between locking and not locking up the fronts.

    Once locked up, you lose steering input and if whatever you’re trying to avoid is in front of you, your car has no other way in avoiding it except IF your car pull up in time.

    In that situation, probably not a lot of people out there could modulate the brakes back to a point to gain control as fast or efficiently as ABS would and swerve around the obstacle.

    On the track however, it’s a completely different scenario. The driver comes into corner knowing when the breaking point is and the amount required. Usually the left foot is hard on the foot rest pushing the body back against the seat, this is why bucket seats the harnesses help, and only taking the left foot off the foot rest to change gears.

    ABS takes the ‘feel’ away from the pedal and will always tries to modulate the modulator. You’ll find you’re always trying to fight against the computer and it’ll slow you down.

    Sooo in conclusion, ABS and DSC could save your life on the streets, but could cost you be a few tenths on the track........ or sometimes even seconds.
    ^^ STIG

  14. #34

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    They call me the yellow STIG

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdhouse View Post
    They call me the yellow STIG
    Are you yellow cause you're a coward??
    2014 Mk7 Golf R | DSG | Reflex Silver | Leather | Drive Assist | Bi-Xenon Headlights
    1981 Lincoln Town Car | Auto | 80s Cream | 90s brown interior | 5.0L V8 | Currently no working headlights



  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by armthehomeless View Post
    Are you yellow cause you're a coward??
    hahah call me what you like, i'm still 3 seconds faster then you...

  17. #37

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    I am pretty sure you are referring to TCS not ABS as mentioned. I am sure ABS is only activated during brake application. However TCS sounds more like what the dyno guy was talking about.

  18. Default

    MRT talk about swas disable or tweaking in their ECUtek tuning on their potato resolution youtube videos, do the OTS maps from CObb, strat` etc have SWAS disabled?

    Also on my Pu with engine on, i held down the DSC for 12secs, this just dissables the button function and permanently enables DSC on. Proven with clutch kick mid corner for wheelspin and TSC light flashed on with nice DSC bog down feelz. Might be USDM only function? However i must try holding it down whilst turning motor on though.

  19. Default

    Turn off ABS system is not a good decision.Advance Brake technology always give you the safe journey.

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