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Thread: Upgraded High Pressure Fuel Pumps - brand new

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMPS3 View Post
    So full pump kits are better suited to the messy, impatient people then.
    I prefer "time poor big picture thinker"...but yeah...

    Those logs sound interesting, 500psi under heavy throttle! Scary...

  2. Default Wow, great questions.

    Hi guys, I am here to answer your questions and see what we can make happen for the Aus based Speeds.

    There are a lot of questions and I am going to try and answer them in one post.

    The Stage 1 fuel pumps are for the stock turbo cars or low boost big turbo car. Do not get a Stage 2 fuel pump if you are a stock turbo car, it will build to much pressure and shut down the injectors because of over pressure at the injector head.

    Stage 2 fuel pumps support big turbo cars and come with a new modified hard line that goes from the fuel pump to the fuel pump rail.

    I really want to keep this as a fuel pump only GB due to the ease of install and we don't have to worry about possible dirt or installer error (not saying anyone is not qualified to install these, we just don't want to take any chances). If you are interested in a set of fuel pump internals, please PM me.

    I am willing to offer all our products up for GB pricing, so if you see something you like on the website please contact me about combo pricing to go with your fuel pump.

    I would like to see 10 fuel pumps sold as units in order to make this GB happen, Stage 1 or Stage 2 will both count towards the GB.

    If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me or post up in this thread.

    Thanks,

    John

    ---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TD View Post
    I prefer "time poor big picture thinker"...but yeah...

    Those logs sound interesting, 500psi under heavy throttle! Scary...
    Yes, 500 psi could become a problem. Post the log and I will give my .02

    Thanks,

    John

  3. #23
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    Have taken a log this morning on the Dash hawk, I will post it up tonight, pressures were doing the same thing again this morning dropping to ~3700 kpa at full noise, driving fine at low boost / revs scenarios.....for now.

    Just a question for you John, on a bolted car with stock turbo (and a couple of extra pounds boost), what are the benefits in fitting one of your High pressure rail relief valves, and which pressure spec option should be fitted, I noticed on your other site there isn't a pressure option for this item. What is involved in the install of this part.

    Just took a photo of the log replay on the Dashhawk, you can see the fuel pressure dropping to 533psi (the display is showing kpa, but the value is psi) at high rpm, the boost is also dropping off, no doubt as a preservation method from the ECU.
    Also the 13:1 afr is a little concerning, probably very fortunate the WMI is there to help prevent knock, I think I need to drive sensibly till I get this fixed.

    Last edited by MattMPS3; 27-10-2011 at 08:48 AM.
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  4. #24

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    Hi John, welcome to ozmps. With the stage 2, due to the increase pressure, do you need to change the injector seals and relief valve as well?

  5. #25
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    Hi John - thanks for coming in to answer all our questions!

  6. #26

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    Do you think a fuel pump alone would give us more power?

  7. #27
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    I would say probably not, unless you are experiencing fuel pressure issues in the first place

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by High on PSI View Post
    Do you think a fuel pump alone would give us more power?
    I would say yes, but only on a tuned car. better fuel pressure would allow more consitancy while tuning
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  9. #29
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    Maybe.. Pending another dh log now i have my hypertech back lol

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  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattMPS3 View Post
    Have taken a log this morning on the Dash hawk, I will post it up tonight, pressures were doing the same thing again this morning dropping to ~3700 kpa at full noise, driving fine at low boost / revs scenarios.....for now.

    Just a question for you John, on a bolted car with stock turbo (and a couple of extra pounds boost), what are the benefits in fitting one of your High pressure rail relief valves, and which pressure spec option should be fitted, I noticed on your other site there isn't a pressure option for this item. What is involved in the install of this part.

    Just took a photo of the log replay on the Dashhawk, you can see the fuel pressure dropping to 533psi (the display is showing kpa, but the value is psi) at high rpm, the boost is also dropping off, no doubt as a preservation method from the ECU.
    Also the 13:1 afr is a little concerning, probably very fortunate the WMI is there to help prevent knock, I think I need to drive sensibly till I get this fixed.


    Yes, drive it out of boost for right now. The ECU is cutting boost and under self preservation right now. I am also going to recommend a new high pressure pump for you there could be other issues with your fuel pump that could be missed if you just did fuel pump internals. Also, get your low pressure pump checked. We have seen a rash of low pressure fuel pump failures lately, this will cause the exact same condition you are seeing in your logs. The rail valve really has very little benefit with the stock turbo. Install is very easy, if you look right behind your t-body (between the block and your t-body) you will see a fuel line with a yellow clip on it. There should be a brass colored fitting that the fuel line attaches to, that is your rail valve. It takes 20 minutes to replace it with the proper tools and the car cold. Car warm and no proper tools, you are going to be at it for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelvin33 View Post
    Hi John, welcome to ozmps. With the stage 2, due to the increase pressure, do you need to change the injector seals and relief valve as well?
    Thank you for having me, . We recommend a replacement rail valve with all our S2 fuel pumps. Injector seals are needed when you start boosting over 20 psi, big turbo or stock it really doesn't matter. The injector seals blow from cly pressure and 20 psi seems to be the magic number that causes them to fail.

    Remember that we only recommend the S2 fuel pump for those running much bigger turbo set ups, the stock turbo will over fuel and pretty much shut down with the S2 fuel pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by TD View Post
    Hi John - thanks for coming in to answer all our questions!
    Any time and thank you for the invite.

    Quote Originally Posted by High on PSI View Post
    Do you think a fuel pump alone would give us more power?
    That is a great question. We have independent testing that has shown 1900 psi of fuel pressure gives the best flame front and optimal burn for the stock turbo and mid frame (larger) turbos. Additional dyno testing has verified this with gains of 18 to 22 WHP when moving from 1500 psi (stock fuel pump at redline) to 1900 psi only (fuel pressure change and AFR adjust to OEM settings). Will the pump give you more power... yes, but you have to tune the additional fuel out due to the added fuel pressure. I hope this helps.

    We also did additional testing with larger frame turbos (59mm and up compressor wheels) and we found that 2030 is optimal for these cars. Dyno testing confirms that there is up to 27 WHP to be gained from getting the fuel pressure to this limit on large turbo set ups.

    Hope this helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattMPS3 View Post
    I would say probably not, unless you are experiencing fuel pressure issues in the first place
    This is normally what we see, fuel pressure issues or fuel pressure that is falling off at 5500 RPM. Its amazing how much better the car feels under boost with proper fuel pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by luke 3mps View Post
    I would say yes, but only on a tuned car. better fuel pressure would allow more consitancy while tuning
    Bingo! That is where the gains really come from, a proper tune mated to higher fuel pressures is always a benefit for the tune!

    Thanks guys for the great turnout and all the great questions.

    I did want to mention that we are now "Pro Tuners" for the MazdaSpeed platform under Cobb, so if any of you guys buy a fuel pump with a rail valve we can adjust your fuel tables for you so they make these target fuel pressures. Being a full Pro Tuner allows us to tune the cars overseas now as well (if you have an application with the Cobb AP that works). If you want a full email tune we can talk about this at a later date or PM me.

    Cheers,

    John
    Last edited by hpfpupgrade; 28-10-2011 at 08:21 AM.

  11. #31

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    Sadly, the AP is not supported on the mps. Not sure if any members have purchased one for attempt.

    Emails replied indicating there will be no AP support outside US

  12. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kelvin33 View Post
    Sadly, the AP is not supported on the mps. Not sure if any members have purchased one for attempt.

    Emails replied indicating there will be no AP support outside US
    I thought people were swapping the US based ECU with success? Is there any need for a quality tuning device in Aus?

    I don't know what it would take but I am sure that Cobb would look into making something if there was a demand for it. If you think that there is, let me know and I will talk with the guys over at Cobb.

    Cheers,

    John

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade View Post
    I thought people were swapping the US based ECU with success? Is there any need for a quality tuning device in Aus?
    Hi John,

    I haven't heard of anyone here swapping out their ECU for a US one. Not sure what the ramifications of that would be.

    Currently in terms of "tune in a box" solutions for the Aus market, there's the Hypertech Max Energy Sport, which a number of people use. There's also now the VersaTune, which TD here has been Beta Testing for them for the Aus Market. It's currently been released for Gen I MPS (Mazdaspeed 3 and 6 I believe). Currently no support for the Gen II, though I believe it's not far away.
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  14. #34
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    This is great reading. Thanks for dropping in John.

  15. #35
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    Agreed, theres a good old debate about this fuel pump issues. I really think i should get some sorta data logging equipment to see what this is all about and whether its actually happening on my car. It seems like theres alot of different sides of thinking on this one.... Some say stock pump is good for 300+ hp etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeldarb View Post
    This is great reading. Thanks for dropping in John.
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  16. #36
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    Cobb don't love us, we have tried...
    #failblog lol

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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelvin33 View Post
    Sadly, the AP is not supported on the mps. Not sure if any members have purchased one for attempt.

    Emails replied indicating there will be no AP support outside US


    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
    Cobb don't love us, we have tried...
    #failblog lol

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    Is that so......
    Nearly all men can stand adversity. But if you want to test a man's character - give him power.
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  18. #38
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    Bump back to the top, anymore takers?

    We'll aim to wrap this one up in around two weeks time, so you still have some time to decide.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade View Post
    I thought people were swapping the US based ECU with success? Is there any need for a quality tuning device in Aus?

    I don't know what it would take but I am sure that Cobb would look into making something if there was a demand for it. If you think that there is, let me know and I will talk with the guys over at Cobb.

    Cheers,

    John
    If it was that simple i would have done it, u have to change the dash cluster out. And trust me ur better keeping your ECU and not getting another. If the AP port was availble in Aus a lot would take them up on it, I WOULD HAVE... If you can talk them into it all would be in ur debt
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TD View Post
    Bump back to the top, anymore takers?

    We'll aim to wrap this one up in around two weeks time, so you still have some time to decide.
    interested, but won't be able to make a decision till I see the damage to bank balance when I get home in 1.5 weeks time...
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