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Thread: Ask spudspec

  1. #1

    Default Ask spudspec

    Hello everyone. Well given I may come across as a know it all, which I am not, I just like to cshare my experience, I started this thread to provide a base Knowledge centre. I have experience with Mazda as a manufacturer and have friends who work at the Hiroshima plant and also the MIYOSHI proving grounds. 2 guys in particular were the key chassis, tyre and wheel tuning guys for the MPS range. I have seen so much testing and prototype work it is amazing. My background is I used to work for Kinetic Suspension Technology, where I was assigned to a Mazda platform( sorry, Top secret) I also worked on a Formula Nippon Project and my biggest achievent was to work in with NISMo Super GT car. and prior to that spent a considerable amount of my after hours time building rally/race cars, testing and racing, Manufacturing hot up parts and occasional fabrications. I have also worked For A University where I was an integral part of manufacturing all the partd for their Formula SAE car, Now I work as an oil annalysis Technician.
    SO I open my self up to you all (with out takin tha Piss) I will answer what I can, If I dont have an answer then I am sure between us all we can work it out.
    Cheers
    SPUD

  2. #2

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    Ever drive the 626 MPS?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    47
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    Possibly a simple one for you...

    If you had to setup a 3MPS to handle better yet still be usable day-to-day on Australia's crappy roads how would you do it and why?

    Thanks for posting, I'm sure I'll think of more questions! Do your mates know much about the ECU's in our cars?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Moorooka, Brisbane
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    Quote Originally Posted by TD View Post
    Possibly a simple one for you...

    If you had to setup a 3MPS to handle better yet still be usable day-to-day on Australia's crappy roads how would you do it and why?

    Thanks for posting, I'm sure I'll think of more questions! Do your mates know much about the ECU's in our cars?
    Nice one Dan...I like that question!
    Redbull is DEAD!!

    Long live the Redbull ... V2



  5. #5

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    Where do you live?

  6. #6

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    No. infact I only ever got to drive My MPS 6. and Only got to be a passenger in the prototype SUV I was working on there.

    ---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------

    I am In perth. To Answer the Handling for the 3MPS, that is a tough Question. it is always a compromise(unless you have Kinetic suspension) So to start with you need to set a budget, keeping in mind that to make it nice, it is gunna cost $$$.
    I think if you keep the OE springs and Shocks, and maybe upgrade the swaybars, and then we need to find a way to change camber ETC on the front end. ( sorry I need to admit, I never seen the 3 mps suspension setup, I know the 6 MPS is not adjustable, and no one makes adjusters for the camber yet. As with all cars road and race, Suspension setup is Key, so again you need to focus on a compromise. Front end setup will make the acr work better, and changing the swaybars will also make it handle differently. I probably will say stuff you all already know, sorry for that, but it is a process of deciding what you want to focus on. if you stiffen the Shocks and springs, will handle great, ride crap. If you go soft for comfort, handling is a bit less. By stiffening the swaybars a bit, should make it turn better, but might give the car a little bit more tugging into bumps on the road, but over the finer stuff it will not be as savage as stiffer springs. If you can do the bars and change the front alignment, you should be able to make it handle great, even make it oversteer somewhat.
    as for ECUs, no. they were totally Chassis. I have sent an email to my good friend their, so I will await his reply as to what he reckons.

  7. #7

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    what do you think about chassis bracing? I'm in the camp where a chassis can never be too stiff, but there is always the law of diminishing returns. Which areas will be most beneficial for the MPS 3 giving the most improvements (bang for buck)?

    edit: further to add, I understand if you stiffen the chassis, you will need to make adjustments to the suspension to make use of the added stiffness. I suppose the art of suspension tuning is exactly that, an art. So to put a limit, I will ask if you could give some information in the context of a road going car using purely non-adjustable shock absorbers (i.e. not coilovers) with progressive springs. I'm sure others would also appreciate suggestions with the use of coilovers where adjustments are possible.

    cheers
    Last edited by lup15; 03-10-2011 at 09:38 PM.

  8. #8

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    Perth eh?

    Remind me to come to you if I have any problems!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudspec View Post
    we need to find a way to change camber ETC on the front end. ( sorry I need to admit, I never seen the 3 mps suspension setup, I know the 6 MPS is not adjustable, and no one makes adjusters for the camber yet.
    What about the SuperPro eccentric bushing kits? http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/handl...hlight=fulcrum

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by lup15 View Post
    what do you think about chassis bracing? I'm in the camp where a chassis can never be too stiff, but there is always the law of diminishing returns. Which areas will be most beneficial for the MPS 3 giving the most improvements (bang for buck)?

    edit: further to add, I understand if you stiffen the chassis, you will need to make adjustments to the suspension to make use of the added stiffness. I suppose the art of suspension tuning is exactly that, an art. So to put a limit, I will ask if you could give some information in the context of a road going car using purely non-adjustable shock absorbers (i.e. not coilovers) with progressive springs. I'm sure others would also appreciate suggestions with the use of coilovers where adjustments are possible.

    cheers
    Chassis Bracing is good if you are into sporty driving and a bit of track work, otherwise i am of the belief, it takes approx 51/2 years of development before you see the car, and I can tell you now the durability course at Miyoshi is not easy, 1 lap simulates 1000 kms, of harsh driving. after 1 lap, they have to stop and change to a different driver. So for everyday use, there is no real need to brace the chassis. BUT, if you do brace the chassis, then it is really up to the individual, the suspension as standard I find on my 6mps is very refined and works well. once you go changing stuff, it is difficult to have a general setup. even simple things like putting a different set of rims/ tyres, slotted and drilled drakes, all that will change the unsprung mass, which will alsso mean the Dampers wont be as effective, the spring rates will react different. I am going to admit, Springs are abit of my weak point, All the stuff I have done has been with dampers, as the springs have been already pre determined. I can tell you that the swaybars on the 3mps are a tricky setup, it took the guys over 6 months of constant tuning to get a happy point, and then the project manager decided that he wanter to use a different tyre, guess what, another 4 moths of intense tuning on springs, swaybars and dampers.. so it is not a simple matter of just chuck in a set of coil overs or eibach springs or koni shocks etc.... ANYWAY, I digressed. The most important thing is to make sure you are content to with the prospect that either it is going to cost an absolute crap load of cash, or it is going to be a compromise between Comfort, and good handling.
    All that said, I personally wouldn't change just the springs as the dampers will not work right. Dampers are what makes a car, hence whay it usually costs 15-20,000 bucks to put suspension on some of the worlds fastest rally cars, I think a set of MCAs to suit a WRX is about 10k. then you need to tune them for what you want. sorry to ramble on. It is a black art getting the compromise, and each individual is different.

    ---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

    Oh forgot to add, I would be really interested to ride in a few cars that have different setups, 1 so I can feel the quality and see the effect it has on comfort and handling, 2 because I love seeing what people have and how they use the car. One thing I will always remember is the MAZDA DNA- the Zoom Zoom, it stands for - Steering Handling and then ride comfort. in that order.

    ---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by andy b View Post
    What about the SuperPro eccentric bushing kits? http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/handl...hlight=fulcrum
    Thanks for that, I am looking into it now, I saw them there the other day, The only problem with eccentric bushes is, they change a number of things, not just camber. the caster will change and the geometry under bump and rebound will be affected. maybe not too much of a problem on the road under normal driving conditions, but I found in the past after having fitted them on the rear of my old car, the squat changed and effectively made the car unstable over bumps, and almost undrivable. hence, removal of eccentric bushes.
    Although I am willing to try it, if someone has a set, would love to compare to my car, as if they work, I will be ording a set asap. these cars do need camber, even the mazda guys say that, eccept due to the "safety factor and cost" they have to set them as they are.

  11. #11

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    I like driving up in the hills, which is primiarly what I'm tuning the car for. I also believe that the stock MPS 3 shocks/springs were not matched ideally from factory hence why the shocks wear out so easily. I'll be changing to Eibach pro kit springs with Bilstein B8 dampeners. Once again, they are not perfectly matched but you won't be able to get that anyway with off the shelf parts without going to coilovers.

    From my readings on the interwebs, chassis stiffening will allow the chassis to transmit weight quicker, hence a more responsive car. but once again, if the suspension isn't able to react quick enough, then added chassis stiffness is wasted.

    GT Spec make a lot of bracing for the MPS 3 and 6 2007 ~ 2009 MazdaSpeed 3 | www.gtspec.com, I'm keen to try some of these, but want to get more information as to which areas the MPS3 chassis would benefit most. Any help here?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    9,459

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    well, we know the MX5 has been announced, but is there going to be a different sort of sports car based on it coming out? (ie something closer to RX8)

    also, rotary, totally dead?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by lup15 View Post
    I like driving up in the hills, which is primiarly what I'm tuning the car for. I also believe that the stock MPS 3 shocks/springs were not matched ideally from factory hence why the shocks wear out so easily. I'll be changing to Eibach pro kit springs with Bilstein B8 dampeners. Once again, they are not perfectly matched but you won't be able to get that anyway with off the shelf parts without going to coilovers.

    From my readings on the interwebs, chassis stiffening will allow the chassis to transmit weight quicker, hence a more responsive car. but once again, if the suspension isn't able to react quick enough, then added chassis stiffness is wasted.

    GT Spec make a lot of bracing for the MPS 3 and 6 2007 ~ 2009 MazdaSpeed 3 | www.gtspec.com, I'm keen to try some of these, but want to get more information as to which areas the MPS3 chassis would benefit most. Any help here?
    Sweet az. Look, stiffening Chassis for handling performance is always a pro. BUT By stiffening one area you place more load on another, so you need to make sure the braceing is linked to already strong parts of the car. As for the faqctory settings, they probably were matched perfectly- for Japanese conditions, but I know what you mean. Just out of interest, is the MPS3 have a Strut type front end?
    I reckon you cant go wrong with Bilsteins, and also at the end of the day, if you feel the springs dont work with the dampers, then you can get custom made springs.
    Is there a reason you dont want to go for a "coil over" or at least an adjustable shock, that way you can adjust to the conditions if you are that serious.
    It is possible to obtain a nicely balanced car with out spending thousands on bracing, and all you really need is good shock and springs, a decent wheel alignment, and maybe go slightly stiffer with the sway bars. Then if you feel you want to start bouncing off curbs and doing heaps of track work, I would look into the bracing.
    Lets not forget TYRES, there is a huge amount of handling just there, the car is only as good as the rubber you put on it.

  14. #14

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    yes the MPS 3 has a strut design at the front. unfortunately front camber adjustment is non existant

    the reason I do not want adjustable suspension is I don't want to invest in time to set them up properly. If I was serious about track work, then I would. But for me, its a road car so the settings will have to cover a wide variety of conditions, not just flat tarmac. In my opinion, the cheaper coilovers have longevity issues

    I agree with tyres definately.

  15. #15

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    For a strut design car, it is easy, you can buy camber adjusting bolts. they are quite effective I have seen in the past. Definately Swaybars and the shock and spring package you are getting should be the goods. Good tyres are your next goal.. that is always the tricky one... what to get!

  16. #16

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    yes normally they would be, however the design of the bottom mounting doesnt have bolts. its more of a socket where its slides in

    I've tried KU36 which are pretty good value for money. going to try the advan AD08 next imported from the states. I'm contemplating getting new rims at the same time... lol damn money pits, cars.

  17. #17

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    For tyres, Go see Gav at Morley Tyres and More.He is one of my GOTO guys. good service and advice and is a Yoky dealer. Does good wheel alignments also.
    BUT dont discount the DUNLOP options. I reckon Go see Stuart Kostera at Kosteras Tyre service in Kalamunda.(used to do a bit of work for him) he is the Dunlop motorsport agent, but also I think he can get the spsprts that the XR5 turbo used for targa west. really good tyre dude. have a looksee.

    ---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudspec View Post
    For tyres, Go see Gav at Morley Tyres and More.He is one of my GOTO guys. good service and advice and is a Yoky dealer. Does good wheel alignments also.
    BUT dont discount the DUNLOP options. I reckon Go see Stuart Kostera at Kosteras Tyre service in Kalamunda.(used to do a bit of work for him) he is the Dunlop motorsport agent, but also I think he can get the spsprts that the XR5 turbo used for targa west. really good tyre dude. have a looksee.
    sorry my bad- you are in qld- Just spoke to my mate GAV, advan AD08 neova--- Apparently an awesome tyre. he has them in 225/45/18- $410 per tyre, fitted balanced etc. FYI.

    I have to say I have a soft spot for the dunlops, but they are pricey pricey

  18. #18

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    what prices can he do for AD08 235/40/18 tyres only ? it would be good to see some competitive local prices, can always post them I'm sure others on here would purchase them too

  19. #19

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    will let you know tomorow.

  20. #20

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    Yeah I'm interested.

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