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Thread: Operation: Car Make Go Faster

  1. #1
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    Default Operation: Car Make Go Faster

    Ok consider this to be my research diary. And that to be a working title until I think of something better. Which I won't because **** you.

    My car is at a very nice place atm in terms of performance and practicality so it will take quite a lot to make me want to do anything further to it, but I want to compile a list of mods, costs and reported benefits in order to properly educate myself about where to throw my money next time I feel like I am starting to collect too much of the stuff. Once compiled this should also serve as a good source of information for others that want to tweak this car for use at the track.

    Mission: Make the MPS as much of a time attack weapon as possible without forgetting that it's still only a Mazda3.

    The hierarchy for money spent vs lap time improvement goes:
    1. Driver skill, experience and size of testicles
    2. Tyres
    3. Brakes
    4. Suspension
    5. Power output

    Power:
    No Brainer here, DP, Intake and ECUTEK tune have given me all the power I reasonably need without going over the top.
    Interesting tidbit: My second tune produced LESS power than my first one did, but it had a more useable torque curve and actually produced faster times.

    I have since upgraded to an ETS TMIC along with a BNR Stage 1 Turbo.
    Manley H beam Rods, Cp-e Stage 2 Pistons, Cp-e Injector Seals along with EGR delete and an Oil Catch Can for good measure.

    One thing people don't talk about much: Race fuel. Look into octane boosters and race fuel for track day shenanigans.

    Suspension:
    Rear Swaybar - first handling mod anyone should do with their MPS.
    Springs/Shocks/Lowering: (2) (3) (4) (5) (6)
    Some Further reading on suspension tuning: (10) (11) (12)
    I know of a LOT of suspension jobs that have utterly ruined cars, from bad geometry to downright stupid tyre scrubbing bullshit. Suspension needs to be done right. Tread lightly.
    I have KW V3's (9) with custom made adjustable strut tops, front swaybar, bump steer kit and rear camber kits all fitted now. I can honestly say that this setup is MORE comfortable than stock on the street and way more stable at the track. KW clearly know what they are doing. These have height, (low speed) bump and rebound adjustments.
    The settings I am using are:

    For the Street:
    Bump: -10 clicks front/rear
    Rebound: -9 Clicks front/rear

    For the track:
    Bump: -5 clicks front/rear
    Rebound: -9 clicks front -8 clicks rear
    1 click harder on rear bump = epic sideways action.

    There is all kinds of stuff to learn on suspension about Bump/Rebound settings, corner weights, front/rear natural frequencies and how everything interacts. When I get a better first hand feel for it I will write more down but the basic setup guide for this car is low and soft in the front end, high and firm in the rear. You want to add Caster and Camber to the front, front toe in for stability and toe out for twitchy responsive cornering.

    Weight Reduction:
    I remove the rear seats at the track and strip everything else (spare, jack etc) out.
    Running light fuel loads helps as well, I take a couple of 10L Jerry Cans to the track with me, typically I will use about 8-10L per session. Be careful tho, I started getting fuel surge when I was running very light on and that can blow your engine up. I fill up when my fuel light comes on now.
    Carbon fiber bonnet? Looks rice but saves a lot of weight!

    Aerodynamics:
    Does the rear wing on the Gen II even do anything? I think it creates more drag than downforce just by looking at it.
    Aero mods usually look stupid and provide no measurable benefit unless the car is stupidly fast.

    Brakes:
    Pads: I am currently using Carbotech XP10 Brake Pads with DBA4000 slotted Rotors for the racetrack - I changed to these from Project Mu Club Racers recently and imo, they are better in every way. I have been hugely impressed with the XP10's. They squeal ridiculously on the road tho. If you're not tracking your car, REMSA pads are fantastic. Theyre cheap, quiet and have great feel.
    Fluid: Penrite SIN, flushed after every second track day. I like this because it has the same boiling points of AP racing fluids and others but it is half the price.
    Big Brake Kits: Potentially grabby stopping power, and can ruin the brake pedal feel as well as screw up your brake bias. 2 good options are out there, Corksport or the Willwood kits that both use the stock rotor and fit under the stock rims. Or Stop Tech/Brembo kits that have different Rotors but also need spacers and/or different wheels.
    A little note on brakes - You will be tempted to remove the backing plates on the front wheels to help with heat dissipation. This is ok to a point, I found semi slicks + racing brake pads produce so much heat that it started melting my ABS sensor plugs, if you are going as aggressive as I do on brakes, keep the backing plates on.

    Wheels/Tyres:
    Lightweight wheels, reducing unsprung/spinning mass has a disproportionately good effect on handling. I have a set of 18x8 Enkei Fujin for my track rims, theyre a couple of kilos lighter than the stock rims
    Tyres: I have A050 Semi Slicks and AD08's depending on what class I am running in. Good tyres are the single biggest upgrade you can get if you are chasing faster lap times

    Drivetrain:
    The MPS comes with a pretty good (Viscous) LSD from the factory compared to most other hatches on the market, but it can still be improved upon.
    Quaife - Saitek on MSF has done this (7) - Torque biasing type that works by biasing torque away from the wheel with low traction which should help the MPS's tendency to spin its inside front wheel coming out of corners. It's main weakness is that it doesn't lock so it won't give you any drive if you lift a wheel off the pavement. This is a very good diff for the road as well as it's smooth in its operation, and is a very common upgrade for other hot hatches that come with shitty open differentials.
    Cusco, Kaaz (13) and OS Gieken (14) make proper clutch type 1/1.5/2 way LSD's as well. These are probably the best options out there for track running, but do sacrifice some daily comfort with NVH and slightly jerky low speed manoeuvring. They also need more maintenance and take considerable time and effort to get them dialed in just right.

    A note on 1/1.5 and 2-way diffs for those that don't understand:
    A 1-way diff behaves like an open diff under braking and deceleration, they only lock when you are accelerating and under power. This is the best option for a FWD car as the tendency to lock under braking will often induce a huge amount of understeer. You are better off having your fronts free wheel under brakes and turn in, and only want the diff to lock when you are trying to put the power down.
    A 1.5-Way diff will lock fully under acceleration and only lock half as strongly under deceleration. If tuned correctly this will probably be the fastest option but you need to spend a lot of time tweaking the locking function and every time you want to make a change, you need to remove the transaxle in our cars.
    A 2-Way diff locks equally under acceleration and deceleration, these are ideal for RWD drift cars but are no good for fasts and even worse for FWD cars.

    The best of both worlds is the Wavetrac diff (15), which is similar to the Quaife in operation but actually has a locking ability. The frustrating thing is that it isn't available for the MPS!

    The main thing to conclude out of the diff debate is this: Unless you are a serious racer then a Quaife or (ideally) Wavetrac will be the best option in nearly all cases. A Kaaz or Cusco type diff will in theory give you the fastest lap times but it can take a lot of tweaking to get them set up just right, and if they are set up wrong then they can make things really terrible. A torque biasing diff is the best option for 95% of owners and even

    I ended up buying a Quaife and have been loving its operation so far. Very smooth and grip exiting corners is excellent. The car doesn't understeer at all anymore provided both wheels stay on the pavement, if you lift a wheel then you lose drive but when it's hooked up - WOW.

    I also bought a NPC clutch + flywheel combo that spins very nicely along with the engine now being fully balanced.

    Servicing:
    Proper wheel balance & alignments
    I use Castrol Edge Ti 5w-40 engine oil in my car.
    Castrol VMX80 in the gearbox
    Regular servicing matters, caining your car at the track WILL reduce its servicable life. Take care of it and it won't give you any trouble.

    Driver Skill
    Learn to drive. Learn how your car behaves, learn the track, practice in racing sims, read about it, watch professionals, take lessons with driving instructors at track days. Experience and knowledge in this area helps educate you to make decisions about what parts of the car need to be modified to fix up weaknesses.


    Good Reads:

    1. [NSFW] MSF vs 8thGen - FW - Forzda vs the World & Beyond - Mazdaspeed Forums
    2. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-plates-82220/ Corksport Camber Plate thread.
    3. http://www.ozmpsclub.com/forum/tech-...tml#post176648 Epic Suspension Tuning Compendium.
    4. http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html Shock absorber theory
    5. http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets18.html Suspension "Not Crap" list.
    6. http://www.gofastadventure.com/?tag=willowsprings
    7. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...tml#post860859 - Post about effects of putting a LSD in.
    8. http://www.heasmans.com.au/new_site3/main.html - Suspension specialists, recommended by LW
    9. http://shop.kw-suspensions.eu/index....&pg=160&page=1
    10. http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_faqs.php
    11. http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspension-tuning.php - Some good, simple reading on suspension dynamics and what adjustments affect what aspects of handling.
    12. http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.html
    13. http://www.kaazusa.com/lsd_mazda.html
    14. http://www.edgeautosport.com/manufac...d-3-2007-2013/
    15. http://www.wavetrac.net/technical.htm
    16. http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f295/l...you-have-2319/ - The best online discussion I have found so far about different LSD types
    17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEiSTzK-A2A - Another good Explanation on how Torsen type differentials work.
    Last edited by Reedy; 06-01-2015 at 06:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    pull out rear seats
    semi slicks
    front brace

    ricer mods, more stickers, cannon exhaust tips

  3. #3
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    Hey Reedy, probably a lot of people are on the same path as you. I've subbed to learn more, I'll be watching comments on tyres, sway bars, rear engine mounts (a no brainer by all reports, but nice to see experiences people are having), how others are setting up their coilovers...this will be a feast of info...

    Good Luck on your ricer burning journey. We're all there with you

  4. #4
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    Reedy go Koni yellows with a drop of only 10-20mm. prob eibach a good choice

  5. #5
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    Troy talks a fair bit about Camber and Caster setups. The geometry of suspension tweaks can get very complicated and is something I want to learn more about.

    People on MSF are saying -2 camber on all 4 corners for autocross work. Keep that in mind.
    Last edited by Reedy; 20-06-2011 at 11:09 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re the wheels, the standard MPS rims are pretty light, as in really light, unless your gonna push a few grand in for some Advanced R's then I wouldn't bother.

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

  7. #7

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    More castor on the front will improve turn in. I used a camber top plate (on the front struts) and turned it 90deg to give more castor )layed back towards the firewall) instead of camber.

    A front sway bar will balance the car (in relation to the rear sway bar)
    If you have power understeer, it won't help much.
    A rear brace (depending on size) will increase the effects of the rear sway bar.
    Strut braces generally stiffen, obviously. It improves the effects of the work the suspension wants/trys to acheive.

    Rip them seats out. The leather weighs quite a fair bit. Remove the spare and as much rear trim that can be easily.
    Less weight in the rear stops "lift-off" over steer and controls the suspension more easily.


    Some say the MPS has good brakes, I fail to see the light. They really need improvement. Easily warped.
    Brakes - Get better branded front rotors. Slotted is a good choice, cross-drilled tend to crack prematurely.
    Pads - Get the best ones you can afford, but, balanced front and rear.
    Fluid - same as pads, best you can afford.
    Achievements
    2009 Jamboree Street Compact Winner
    Aust. Quickest and Fastest MPS
    12.3 seconds @ 111Mph.
    Proven over the Qtr mile

    Another Mazda 3 MPS - Almost fully bolted - Waiting for a turbo upgrade - The weekend hack.
    Toyota Yaris - Coilovers, rollcage, raceseats, harnesses, 18s - Also waiting for a turbo upgrade.
    2011 AWD Territory - White and Slightly lowered on 22s - The tow car.
    2011 RWD Territory - Black on black and slammed on 22s - The family transporter.

  8. #8
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    Heh, using the camber plate sideways to give more caster is quite clever.

    With the rear swaybar tho I think my car turns in pretty damn well. What I want is a bit more lateral grip to get higher cornering speeds. Would I be better off with a bit more camber instead of caster in this case? Ideally I guess a bit of both would be the best but if I had to choose.....

  9. #9
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    How far are you willing to go, is ripping out seats an option, cause that would ruin practicality...

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

  10. #10
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    Track time ,(more) . Open the intake ports on your coconut ,we all tend to think we know it all!!!!! (NOT) .
    Brakes (pads ,compound and fluid ,rotors ) are an absolute must as Troy stated use the best u can afford. Brake hard late and to be able to put power down /effectively at right point of corner .(practice)
    No point in H/P if u cant use it.
    Understand the limits of your car (practice) it already has heaps of grunt . From memory u already did quiet well at Wakefield. Confidence and knowledge.
    Great thread , hope u get heaps of input.

  11. #11

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    I don't know about Gen2 bonnet but they're bloody heavy!

    if you want the weight reduction of carbon fiber bonnets without the wank wanna be JDM look, you know you can paint it if need be to match your car???

    I know many ppl who have done this, and I would do the same tho my budget atm is projected to other things atm than carbon bonnets...

    btw factory rims weight a ton, I don't know if any of you have ever owned light weight rims before but the difference is very evident when you have them on the car, also swapping the wheels over to aftermarket would allow you to run wider rubber = more grip. factory rims on the track = FTL

    just a though....
    Do Not Fear Torque Steer...

    ZOOM F*cking ZOOM Biatch!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XS View Post
    More castor on the front will improve turn in. I used a camber top plate (on the front struts) and turned it 90deg to give more castor )layed back towards the firewall) instead of camber.

    A front sway bar will balance the car (in relation to the rear sway bar)
    If you have power understeer, it won't help much.
    A rear brace (depending on size) will increase the effects of the rear sway bar.
    Strut braces generally stiffen, obviously. It improves the effects of the work the suspension wants/trys to acheive.

    Rip them seats out. The leather weighs quite a fair bit. Remove the spare and as much rear trim that can be easily.
    Less weight in the rear stops "lift-off" over steer and controls the suspension more easily.


    Some say the MPS has good brakes, I fail to see the light. They really need improvement. Easily warped.
    Brakes - Get better branded front rotors. Slotted is a good choice, cross-drilled tend to crack prematurely.
    Pads - Get the best ones you can afford, but, balanced front and rear.
    Fluid - same as pads, best you can afford.
    I thought about this, i was going to try not 90 but 45ish degrees, so u get so u get camber and caster improvment.
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post
    How far are you willing to go, is ripping out seats an option, cause that would ruin practicality...
    Taking the seats out is fine for a track day, you just put them back in again at the end of the day. It depends on how easy that is to do and whether doing so will introduce any annoying rattles.

  14. #14
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    Stiffer front springs
    • Increases mid-corner and corner-exit understeer.
    • Increases steering under braking.
    • Increases the car’s responsiveness, but makes it more “nervous”.
    Softer front springs
    • Makes the car have more steering, especially mid-corner and at corner exit.
    • Front springs that are too soft can make the car understeer under braking.
    Stiffer rear springs
    • Makes the car have less rear traction, but more steering mid-corner and at corner exit. This is especially apparent in long,
    high-speed corners.
    Softer rear springs
    • Makes the car have more rear side traction mid-corner, through bumpy sections, and while accelerating (forward traction).

    FRONT SHOCKS
    Softer damping
    • More steering into the corner.
    • Less stable.
    Harder damping
    • Less steering into the corner.
    • Easier to drive.

    Rear Shocks
    Softer damping
    • More traction.
    • Less steering.
    Harder damping
    • Less traction.
    • More steering.

    ALL Shocks (F+R)
    Softer damping
    • More steering, more roll of the car better for bumpy low
    traction tracks.
    Harder damping
    • Less steering, less roll, better for high traction tracks.

    Camber affects the car’s traction. Generally more negative (inward) camber means increased
    grip since the side-traction of the wheel increases.
    The amount of front camber required to maintain
    the maximum contact patch also depends on the amount of caster. Higher caster angles
    (more inclined) require less negative camber, while lower caster angles (more upright) require more negative camber.

    CAMBER VS. CASTER (part of what i believe the tyre wear on gen2 issue is - not just camber)
    Camber is all about contact patch — keeping as much tire on the ground as possible. Camber and caster are related in that caster gives an
    amount of effective camber change when the front wheels are turned.
    A higher caster angle (more inclined) has the effect of progressively leaning the front tires into the direction of the corner as the wheels are turned.
    The higher (more inclined) the caster angle, the greater the effective camber change when the wheels are turned. This happens because the tops
    of the wheels BOTH TILT towards the inside of the corner. With the proper amount of caster this can increase steering, but if too much the tire only
    runs on the inside edge and loses its contact patch and grip.
    Compare that with static camber angle of the wheels, which is adjusted with the car resting on a fl at surface and the wheels pointed straight
    ahead.
    Static camber adjustments primarily affect the outside wheels, since these are the wheels that bear the majority of the load during cornering. The
    amount of front static camber required to maintain maximum tire contact largely depends on the amount of caster used. A higher caster angle
    (more inclined) requires less static camber, while a lower caster angle (more upright) requires more static camber. Check how the tires wear when
    you change caster and re-adjust static camber if necessary until you get the desired (fl at) wear on the tire.
    Another effect of caster is that it tilts the chassis when the front wheels are turned. The higher the caster angle (more inclined), the more the
    inside wheel lifts the inside of the chassis from the ground when the wheels are turned into the corner. This tilts the chassis down to the outside,
    distributing more weight to the outside wheel.

    Less caster angle
    (more vertical)
    • Decreases straight-line stability.
    • Increases steering at corner entry.
    • Decreases steering at mid-corner and corner exit.
    More caster angle
    (more inclined)
    • Increases straight-line stability.
    • Decreases steering at corner entry.
    • Increases steering at mid-corner and corner exit.

    FRONT ROLL BAR
    Stiffer
    • Decreases chassis roll.
    • Decreases front grip (increases rear grip).
    • Increases off-power steering at corner entry.
    • Quicker steering response.
    Softer
    • Increases chassis roll.
    • Increases front grip (decreases rear grip).
    • Decreases off-power steering at corner entry.
    • Slower steering response.

    REAR ROLL BAR
    Stiffer
    • Decreases chassis roll.
    • Decreases rear grip (increases front grip).
    • Increases on-power steering.
    • Quicker steering response in high-speed chicanes.
    Softer
    • Increases chassis roll.
    • Increases rear grip (decreases front grip).
    • Decreases on-power steering.


    Hope that is of some use to you.
    Getting your suspension is all about compromise, that info should help you decide on the balence between road car and race car that you are after.
    I would get a wheel alignment from a specialist that deals with race cars or a good old fasioned mechanic. Not from a tyre place that only knows how to read the spec sheet and the machine, and have little to no knowledge about suspension geometry. Camber change, toe out on turns etc.

    If your like me and want value for money with your modifications, some quality shocks and springs would be first choice. Coilovers only if you want to sacrifice a bit of daily practicality and you know what your doing with set ups. Even though they are nicely adjustable so you can get it right, you can also get it very wrong.

    Weight savings are good, but i wouldn't go to the extent of lightweight body panels untill you are super consistant with your lap times and 0.01sec means everything. There are better gains to be had for the money.

    But as you know already, before all that, a car is only as good as its driver, so practice practice practice

  15. #15

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    ^^^ Great info right there!

  16. #16

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    In your position I'd go Whitelines front swaybar, some H&R or Eibach springs with some Koni yellows. Maybe some camber adjutmemt for front and rear, and a real performance wheel alignment. It might chop your tyres for everyday use though. All that would be not to expensive in the scheme of things either.

  17. #17
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    Any places you can recommend for a proper wheel alignment? I'm not sure if Tunehouse can do that.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reedy View Post

    Mission: To destroy rival hot hatches at the track without looking like a ricer asshole. That means there are to be absolutely no cosmetic mods that don't also carry CONSIDERABLE performance gains, this includes lowered suspension
    Stupidly low is ricer, cars lowered sensibly isnt.
    CES "SS" TBE | SURE "Aeros" SRI | SURE "Sidewinder" TIP | SURE "Return" Recirc Hose | CUSTOM "PWR Core" FMIC | Hypertech "Tuned" | Turbosmart "Atmo" BOV | MSD DashHawk | CP-e REM | SURE "Anchors" Shifter Bushings | JBR SSP and Weight | JBR Heavy Knob |Redline Hood Quick LIFT ELITE | TEIN "SS" Coilovers | Front - Rear HOTCHKIS Swaybars | Front - Rear DBA 4000 Slotted Rotors | A1RM Brake Pads | 18x8 +45 Tenzo-R Cuzco Black V1 | 235/40/18 Michelin Pilot Super Sport | Safe n' Sound baby Seat lol

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reedy View Post
    Any places you can recommend for a proper wheel alignment? I'm not sure if Tunehouse can do that.
    they will Definately have somebody who does their wheel alignments for them.
    Just give them a call.

    ---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

    Or MRT.
    They have their own machine and PLENTY of track knowledge.

  20. #20
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    Ok everyone keeps banging on about suspension so let's take a closer look at that.

    Suspension kits = more adjustability/fine tuning
    Lowering = lower centre of gravity
    Shocks/Springs = firmer ride

    I don't want to lower my ride height for practicality reasons, and I am not too keen on making the ride any harsher than it already is.

    An adjustable suspension kit might be the go, soft day to day and firm it up at the track. Camber/Caster adjustments would be nice as well for fine tuning things. Is there anything on the market that fits this description? Where can I buy it, how much does it cost?

    Bearing in mind there is little evidence to support whether this actually makes the car go faster, a lot of people think harsher = faster but this is not necessarily true. I am yet to see anyone say "I installed X suspension kit with Y settings and it gave me Z seconds per lap"

    Chances are that lowered car with firmer springs and added camber only gained speed thanks to one of those parameter tweaks. I want to isolate what makes a difference and what doesn't

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