Turbo + Timing chain probably going to be replaced - help and suggestions? :)

Hi Guys,

haven't been around for a while I know, life gets busy like that.

My darling little mazda 6 MPS (2006 model) has about 150K on the clock, and for the last few weeks has been making a whirring/fluttering noise on initially hard acceleration, then medium, now mild and occasionally on idle.

So, I took her to a mechanic I know and trust (are we allowed to do shout outs? Absolute Car Care in wooloongabba, top shelf guys - Admins, let me know if I need to take this down), and they think its probably the turbo, and the timing chain is apparently cactus as well.

Timing chain I assume is a no brainer - buy new chain, install, drive away happy.

Turbo - should I look at getting something other than a K04? This will be the second K04 this car has killed (it was replaced about 10K before I bought the car at 93K, I got the car at 101K. Replaced due to the dreaded smokey K04 problem). I'm not really that interested in extra performance (I don't have the spare money to pay for something like a chip & tune, or changing the induction/exhaust systems, and I assume that would be neccessary to really benefit from a "performance" turbo), I more mean is there a different turbo that people think might be a little more reliable? or any other helpful information you guys can give me in regards to turbo or timing belt replacement?

Cheers!

Timing chain I wouldn't have anyone do other than an actual Mazda dealer, or a shop that has done one successfully before on the MZR. Plenty of 'good' and 'performance' shops have blown motors through dodgy timing chain installs. You should do VVT etc, as well while you're at it.

Turbo, if you want as close to stock as possible but improved reliability, maybe a BNR stage 1 if you can find one. If you're willing to get a tune, perhaps look at the CorkSport turbo, though the longevity of that is largely unproven.

Glad to hear Absolute Car Care are good, I'm booked in for a service with them on Friday.

You might get away with a BNR S1 without retuning.

The problem is your stock tune is based on the boost response of the stock turbo.

If you have a turbo that spools differently and is more efficient you could end up with boost spikes and overboosting.

The HPFP are marginal on these cars with the stock turbo and tune. With any higher performance turbo you will need HPFP internals upgraded.

The fluttering could be your turbo vanes scraping the casing. If you can get the inlet pipe off you can feel how much lateral play is in the turbo shaft by hand.

There is a local Mazda tech who does the timing chain replacements from his home business Laxspeed. I am doing mine myself on my CX7 starting tomorrow, wish me luck.

Thanks for the comments GoonBong & Ozynigma.

Firstly, Matty B, I'm talking about the absolute car care in Brisbane, we might be talking about different shops? your location is listed as canberra, but maybe thats old info :P

Good News - Timing chain is fine, as is the VVT. Only other thing wrong is some condensation in brake fluid (cheap flush and fluid and away we go!) and my rear tyes are bald on their inner edge due to incorrect alignment. otherwise car is in good nick!

Bad news - the turbo....

my turbo is very, very busted. Shaft play so bad the compressor is scrubbing against the housing. Apparently some other stuff as well, basically unsalvegable.

My mechanic has quoted me $2200 for stock OEM turbo, or, $2350 from GCG turbo's in sydney. Apparently its high-flow, but doesn't require a tune as we run an AFM not a MAP. It also has some modifications for reliability (billeted compressor and a few other changes to things like bearings etc). its a full bolt on kit, comes with all gaskets etc for installation, no more to pay. It does reuse the stock oil line, however the mechanic is going to make a custom braided line for ~$100-$150.

Any other options I should consider? is this a reasonable price for a replacement turbo? what mistakes am I making?

Finally, not that I should really care about this, but can I expect much of an increase in power from a high-flow unit? I'm guessing no, but I'm curious anyway.... :)

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeve

My mechanic has quoted me $2200 for stock OEM turbo, or, $2350 from GCG turbo's in sydney. Apparently its high-flow, but doesn't require a tune as we run an AFM not a MAP. It also has some modifications for reliability (billeted compressor and a few other changes to things like bearings etc). its a full bolt on kit, comes with all gaskets etc for installation, no more to pay. It does reuse the stock oil line, however the mechanic is going to make a custom braided line for ~$100-$150.

Any other options I should consider? is this a reasonable price for a replacement turbo? what mistakes am I making?

Finally, not that I should really care about this, but can I expect much of an increase in power from a high-flow unit? I'm guessing no, but I'm curious anyway.... :)

Thanks!

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I went to GCG site and I wasn't too impressed. They are listing K04-582 as being suitable for 3 and CX7 when that is the CX7 spec turbo. You need the K04-881 or preferably the later K04-882.

My earlier advice still stands. Unless you are going to tune the boost control I would not be putting a higher performing turbo in the car. Ask around on the US MazdaSpeed Forum if you want confirmation of this. Its quite possible GCG are just reselling one of the eBay knockoff turbos with billet wheel with a substantial markup.

BNR on the other hand has proved its reliability and fixed its product when there were problems. Corksport its too early to tell on reliability but they have have done R&D and beta testing.

Our cars use MAF, MAP and EBCS. My tuner told me anything that increases flow efficiency, even an upgraded top mount intercooler, can cause boost spikes.

Most people don't rebuild K04's because they figure its time to upgrade. In your case yours is probably stuffed.

You can get good used K04's for around $300-$400 from people who have upgraded.

I have a 40,000km K04-882 from a 3 MPS that you can have cheap (say $100) but it has shaft play and will need a rebuild kit. There are just the faintest traces of the impeller scraping the casing. Otherwise it has performed flawlessly in my CX7 for the last 10,000km since I put it in.

If you are not sticking to a stock turbo you are best off getting the fuel pump upgrade and an AccessPort and at least an off the shelf tune from a reputable tuner. A custom tune will cost more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeve

Thanks for the comments GoonBong & Ozynigma.

Firstly, Matty B, I'm talking about the absolute car care in Brisbane, we might be talking about different shops? your location is listed as canberra, but maybe thats old info :P

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I just moved back to Brissy after a 2 year stint in Canberra, so we're definitely talking about the same place. Just glad to hear that they have experience with the3 MPS platform.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozynigma

My earlier advice still stands. Unless you are going to tune the boost control I would not be putting a higher performing turbo in the car. Ask around on the US MazdaSpeed Forum if you want confirmation of this. Its quite possible GCG are just reselling one of the eBay knockoff turbos with billet wheel with a substantial markup.

BNR on the other hand has proved its reliability and fixed its product when there were problems.

Our cars use MAF, MAP and EBCS. My tuner told me anything that increases flow efficiency, even an upgraded top mount intercooler, can cause boost spikes.

If you are not sticking to a stock turbo you are best off getting the fuel pump upgrade and an AccessPort and at least an off the shelf tune from a reputable tuner. A custom tune will cost more.

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So, keeping in mind that I really can't afford to spend more than $3300 (thats the quote for all parts, labour, etc associated with the turbo), can I get a BNR, the fuel pump upgrade, accessport & off the shelf tune for under $3300? and if I could, what kind of power would I be getting compared to stock?

You will go very close for that money on a BNR S1.

At least an extra 10% maybe 20% power with a tune and turbo. You will be limited by your intake diameter and your stock down pipe and catalytic converter.

Call Troy at 2XS Racing. He will have a hardly used Corksport turbo coming off a car soon. That is about equivalent to a BNR S3 but is completely drop in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozynigma

You will go very close for that money on a BNR S1.

At least an extra 10% maybe 20% power with a tune and turbo. You will be limited by your intake diameter and your stock down pipe and catalytic converter.

Call Troy at 2XS Racing. He will have a hardly used Corksport turbo coming off a car soon. That is about equivalent to a BNR S3 but is completely drop in.

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Sorry to seem dense, but do you mean, the BNR S1 will cost close to $3300, or the BNR S1 + peripherals/tune + install will come close to $3300.

As for Troy, I seem to remember the 2XS name... is that the guy who makes the wicked custome Turbo-back-exhausts? I'll get in touch, see what he can do for that kind of money.

Thanks for all your help mate ^_^

The lot for $3300. There was a special on recently on the S3 for $990 U.S. Plus freight. The S1 should be no more than that.

Whole package. If you keep your eyes out on here you can find APs popping up now and then (go for a V2 if you want to keep it cheap) as well as intakes and exhausts if you want to upgrade (if you ever want to do a downpipe, while the turbo is out would be the time).

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Thanks for all the advice guys. I might get in touch with 2XS racing and see what they can do with $3300! never thought I'd have the money to customise anything on my car, and yet here we are! :LOL:

You have the mod bug now! Haha

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Cross posting from the other thread about my turbo troubles, in case some people are reading this one and not that one :P

quick update! :D

Got my car back from Troy at 2XS, super stoked with the results.

Final shopping list ended up being:

2XS 3" intake w/ 3 bar map sensor
GTX2867r turbo
2XS 3" twin dump pipe
autotech HPFP internals
Cobb AP V2
3-port grimmspeed EBCS
Purple Drank tune @ 21 PSI.

I have another tune from PD that runs spring pressure only, I'm contemplating running that instead of the 21 psi tune, just for longevity (I super, duper, cannot afford to VTA a rod....), but in having said that, I'm yet to hit 21 psi (closest so far is 17.7), so maybe I'll leave it as is. Still need to run some WOT logs I guess! have been data-logging just as I drive to work etc, things look good so far (from what I can see - I'm not exactly an expert, but google helps! :) ).

Impressions? the GTX2867 spools a tiny bit slower than the K04. I never even really noticed spool time with the k04, with the GTX there's a tiny bit of delay. That could just be my nanna-right-foot though, as I'm yet to give her the full beans. the pay off though is oodles of top end flow. Around 5Kish where the K04 has run its race, the GTX is still building/pulling harder. I'm yet to run it WOT to the redline yet, but I don't think this turbo is going to run out of legs.

Troy's intake and dump pipe are awesome, utterly awesome. At idle & cruising, you can't even tell the car is modified. Under light acceleration, there's a gentle whistle from the intake. When you give it some stick, the whistle turns in to a roar and you can really hear the GTX spooling. When you're done driving hard, it goes back to a nice gentle background noise. The car is definitely more responsive, and feels like it flows much better. I can see why Troy and his products are so highly recommended!

Thats it for now I guess. I should get some pictures shouldn't I? :P I've only got a potato phone though, maybe grainy pics will have to do. I also need to run some logs/V-dynos, just as soon as I figure out how, and more importantly, find a nice private road :clap:

as a final, if anyone's got any tips, tricks, suggestions, magical knowledge, or whatever else, I'm always open to learning new things! :P