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its well known,that for our engine doesnt exist two much tested modifications!thats a problem for sure and i want to know if any 2.3t passed over 350 hp without any problem and how!i hope that our beloved 2.3T is totaly reliable even when the power upraises to God!!
whats your opinion dear friends and what are the perfect solution in order to increase power safely?
in Greece with ecu reflashing ,we havent the best results and after 6 or 8 months the pistons rods were broken!
386 AWHP stock block GT3076 no meth.
Say bye bye to that motor!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuliaj
no no it will just have crankcase ventilation :p
^^ Not a cool mod!! :(
He has since parted out and sold the car, no ECU mods either, here is the dyno post.
whoosh dyno *NEW* 386awhp / 349awtq (8/28/08) - Mazdaspeed Forums
It would be nice to see how it lasted like that...I say it would have had some issues later down the road...nice to see though, would be awesome to see with a new ECU or even just a flash.
Seeing as this was done with CP-e, I don't think there would've been any issues. I honestly believe the stock block is capable of 400 hp at the crank without issues as a daily driver. Whoosh's 386 AWHP is roughly 500hp at the crank assuming 25% loss. IMHO it's not the engine components that are weak, it's problems with tuning.
Other underlyingdesign faults exist also. Some talk of weak mains allowing the crank to move around and thus damaging rods etc. Our rods have been seen as the "weak point " thus far but may be a symptom of another issue like that listed above rather than being weak themselves.
One big developement in the states is that a hugely respected engine builder DCR is going to examine and diagnose the failure causes big turbo etc MPS's are experiencing.
An example of his process is as follows.
Build a shortblock,
machine a head,
make 100 dyno pulls
track it
beat it
tear it down
examine for wear and failure
improve.....
then repeat
I personally have stopped pushing for more power untill a rock solid answer is available. This hopefully will be soon (not holding my breath though)
nice to hear these good news guys!!:woot:
we also believe here in Greece,that the main cause of the <<crack>> is the false ecu reflash!
i believe very much in 2.3T:y:
but the difference between our engine and others,for example TFSI is that for Grouo Vag motors there are so many tested solutions even with any motors already broken!but now they know how with filter,exhaust and ecu reflash to be reliable!
we need specific kits and solutions!
i hope noone else engine to say bye bye...lately a friend of mine with a mazda 6 mps,by the ecu reflasch and the too big exhaust -76mm-(for 340 hp)the piston rods were destroyed...
Ps.i beg your pardon if my english arent in the best level!!hope you can understand me well!!thank you ayway!!:woot:
So far im not aware of any Xede guys blowing the 2.3 MZR's in Australia. Would suggest a safe number is 270-280 BHP at the wheels (206-210kW), and thats really all you need out of one of these babies. I agree, it does come down to how well the car is tuned, and its important to have a tuner thats experienced enough to know there's fine line between added performance and reduced lifespan...
i totally agree with you Wardski,but whati if we feel the need to go further??thats the question:afro:
what are the solutions to upgrade the power safely at...for example 400 hp?
Is there really a need to go to 400 HP? If you want to spend a good AU$20-25k on a forged reinforced crank, bearings, pullies, forged rods and heads, fuel pump, FMIC, by all means go ahead. 400 HP would have torque steer pulling you all over the road, so straight line starts would be a nightmare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasos Mazdaspeed 6
IMO I would rather stick with 270-280 HP, and reduce unsprung weight to get off the line quicker, and without massively reducing the lifespan of your MPS.
For 300kW (400HP) atw, get something with that stock. It might even be cheaper than an MPS + mods cost. In Australia (i hate to say it) but I'd buy a Ford XR8T or Holden Commodore HSV. And if i wanted to mod a car up to 400 HP, i'd go buy a stock Evo 9, and mod it to hell - knowing that this car is tried and tested at that level. :afro: IME, the MPS is not a good platform to mod to the level you're after.
Not a good platform...yet. Don't forget that one of the reasons we all bought the MPS is cause we don't want to look like ricers/bogans and attract police attention. My short term aim will be 400hp (approx 300hp atw) and it won't need any of the above listed items except maybe fuel pump. AWD ftw :burnout:
If you really want a fast FWD car and don't care about being a ricer...
[YOUTUBE]NhghRPqLhP8[/YOUTUBE]
^ lolll!!
My jaw dropped so much there is a dent in the floor...
300Kw strikes me as more than most 2.xl 4 cyl turbo's could manage reliably. Serious - that's at least 330Kw at the flywheel, prob 360Kw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardski
Not many years ago that's in the realm of exotics or mad mods. It's a whole lot more than I would expect to happen reliably from a turbo 4.
lol... VtEch YO !!
There are plenty of 2 litre Evos, 2.0/2.5 litre WRXs and Dodge Neons pushing out 300 kw atw these days, so it's not a question of how. The technology hasn't changed in decades, pistons go up and down -> wheels turn. It's only really a matter of strengthening the components enough that they will do it faster/harder. The question should really be, is our engine strong enough at stock, and I believe they are.
That's a gross oversimplification. It's not hard to argue that the technology has changed dramatically over the last 10 yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuliaj
The best anyone here has seen on stock internals is 233Kw atw with water/meth, I believe. From what I've heard it would go pop without the water/meth. That's about 275 at the flywheel.
Some reckon tuning is the problem (< 300Kw problem?? hahaha) - So drop the compression ratio then. What kind of boost and fuel do you need to get 360Kw at 9.5:1 compression? 9:1 should at least make the tuning easier and keep detonation away a bit longer...what's the compression ratio of the high kw wrx etc?
No offence, but I think one would be in lala land expecting 360 flywheel Kw on a streetable engine. I'm betting the high Kw WRX etc are race prepped type engines? Are they DI? I bet they aren't, and that has a significant bearing on what is happening in the combustion chamber....
I can't see it happening on stock internals. I'm afraid believing the stock internals are stong enough doesn't make it so, and the proof is in the pudding. They're popping when pushed those extremes.
Let's not kid ourselves - 360Kw is an extreme expectation from a 2.xL turbo 4.
The question isn't "are the stock internals strong enough?" - they clearly aren't or they wouldn't be going bang. The question is why are they going bang. Work that out and you might be able to prevent the stock internals popping.
How long does your average 300+Kw WRX or neon last? Who'd know? I'm willing to bet nobody has statistics to back up the claim that that's reliable.
I've heard that the cooling effect in the chamber of DI is placing greater thermal variation stresses on pistons etc, and that's what's killing them.
Again, no offence, but I'm inclined to suggest this is one for the mad modders happy to spend tens of thousands on their drivetrain.