Load based tuning......HELP!

I need some assistance with understanding load based TUNING.......and I am sure I am not the only one.

I understand the concept behind a load based tune, or at least I think I do.

Let me know if my understanding is way off. I am targeting 2.0 load in certain gears between 3500 and 4500 rpm and I am getting close to it. Now this will stay the same whether it is 35* or 10*. The ECU will adjust boost to make sure that I get those loads, or as close as it can, in any condition. The exception here would be if knock is detected then it will reduce boost, timing and close the throttle to get it under control.

I have already noticed that, with said loads, I gained nothing on paper when I installed the Twin DP. Power did not increase as I am still only targeting 2.0 load. If I install my Corksport TIP and SRI this week, will the same happen again? No gains on paper?

The other thing I am trying to get my head around is timing adjustments. Will I see an increase in power if I add timing or will it be "blocked" once again by my targeted loads?

Not knowing what safe loads I can target, it is fast becoming a gamble and not really gaining power is fast becoming a big waste of money!!!

Is my logic screwed up?

"Load" is a funny thing... It's the amount of air your MAF sensor reads when compared to the rpm.
So, its actually possible to run less boost and have higher loads :)

It makes sense that after installing a dp your power does not increase at all, as you are targeting a certain power limit/load. Did you find the boost went down afterwards?

Timing is done separately to your load calculation, so if you add timing, you'll see power gains :)

I've been hitting 2.2-2.3 pretty regularly for the past 18 months, but that's with some ethanol in my tank... That seems to keep torque under the "safe" limit of 375ftlb (about 500NM) for stock block... That's unverified obviously, but since that limit has been put in on MSF, it has stopped a lot of pistons appearing in open air :)

From what I've seen, a k04 is rarely able to flow more than about 280-290g/s so if you're above 260g/s I doubt you'll see any major changes.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne

"Load" is a funny thing... It's the amount of air your MAF sensor reads when compared to the rpm.
So, its actually possible to run less boost and have higher loads :)

It makes sense that after installing a dp your power does not increase at all, as you are targeting a certain power limit/load. Did you find the boost went down afterwards?

Timing is done separately to your load calculation, so if you add timing, you'll see power gains :)

I've been hitting 2.2-2.3 pretty regularly for the past 18 months, but that's with some ethanol in my tank... That seems to keep torque under the "safe" limit of 375ftlb (about 500NM) for stock block... That's unverified obviously, but since that limit has been put in on MSF, it has stopped a lot of pistons appearing in open air :)

From what I've seen, a k04 is rarely able to flow more than about 280-290g/s so if you're above 260g/s I doubt you'll see any major changes.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

---

Well I must say the timing issue is a welcome relief. I am only hitting just shy of 230g/s, at this stage, at just over 6000 rpm.

I did not see any significant drop in boost no. But it has significantly increased spool. I am curious to see what the TIP and SRI will do to the flow figures. I think I will up the targeted loads to 2.1 after the intake mods and see where we are at.

Does it matter that even though my car only sees 66-67% APP, the higher load figures only comes into play on higher % APP? The reason I am asking is that I am not quite hitting my desired loads and I was wondering if that had something to do with it.

As per below.

Attachment 15614

ok, it's a bit different for me with my tune :p
my requested load for APP position is 3.0 from 2500rpm up, and APP 62.5 up, however my requested load per gear is set to 2.2 from 2500 up (remember, bigger turbo...)

there is still a fair bit of flow left in your set up, so would definately say there is more power to come :)

Actually, you talking throttle plate or APP?
cause they're 2 different things... at WOT your APP should be 99%, but my throttle plate position is stuck at 83%

I have a APP, Accelerator Pedal Position and Relative Throttle Position, the throttle opening relative to the learned closed position, ie the plate position. The max plate position I get is 76% and the max pedal position mine registers is 66/67%.

Makes me wonder.......

Check out the log......

That throttle position is odd, what boost is it hitting (couldn't see boost in the logs)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shaneski

That throttle position is odd, what boost is it hitting (couldn't see boost in the logs)

---

"intake manifold pressure" he's hitting ~33.5-14.7 = 18.8 psi :)
and the APP is very weird... mine's definately 99%
other interesting thing is that the WGDC is maxed out from 5400-6000rpm

if possible, can you log commanded/requested load? see what the car is asking for...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne

"intake manifold pressure" he's hitting ~33.5-14.7 = 18.8 psi :)
and the APP is very weird... mine's definately 99%
other interesting thing is that the WGDC is maxed out from 5400-6000rpm

if possible, can you log commanded/requested load? see what the car is asking for...

---

Yeah I can do that. I am currently busy with Steve from Versatune via email trying to sus it out. The APP never goes higher than 66% and we think it might be screwing around with the requested loads as I never see max APP so it only references the maps to 66% APP. Could also be the reason I am not getting a lot of flow.

I have noticed that the wgdc is maxed as well, not too sure what is happening.....

I will log a little later and post it up.

App above 76% are still reported as 76% in vt, in logs monitor realative throttle position, if a load target is exceeded you can see the throttle begins to close or not reach the desired app. I think I asked a similar question to Steve a while ago, his answer was something to do with the app being used as an axis in base boost tables... Think that's in vt forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPS2NV

App above 76% are still reported as 76% in vt, in logs monitor realative throttle position, if a load target is exceeded you can see the throttle begins to close or not reach the desired app. I think I asked a similar question to Steve a while ago, his answer was something to do with the app being used as an axis in base boost tables... Think that's in vt forum.

---

Steve has send me a revision where he dialed in max load at 68% APP in the normal and overload tables, as I am not seeing much more. My reported pedal position only goes to 66 and relative goes to 76. According to my logs I never get to 100% pedal position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Steve has send me a revision where he dialed in max load at 68% APP in the normal and overload tables, as I am not seeing much more. My reported pedal position only goes to 66 and relative goes to 76. According to my logs I never get to 100% pedal position.

---

Does Versatune have APP tables you can set by gear as per attached pic that AP has or to check what it is set at.
Attachment 15617

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shaneski

Does Versatune have APP tables you can set by gear as per attached pic that AP has or to check what it is set at.
Attachment 15617

---

Yes it has the same as the AP. They all ramp up to 100.

Attachment 15618

Try it with key on engine off, dsc not causing the issue?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPS2NV

Try it with key on engine off, dsc not causing the issue?

---

I will check it out.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne

"intake manifold pressure" he's hitting ~33.5-14.7 = 18.8 psi :)
and the APP is very weird... mine's definately 99%
other interesting thing is that the WGDC is maxed out from 5400-6000rpm

if possible, can you log commanded/requested load? see what the car is asking for...

---

Quite a few things I learned today. My APP for some reason does not go past 67% no matter what I do. I causes my launch control to be of no use as the parameters for LC in 98% APP and the same goes for NLTS. I will have to re-do my tables and use 67% APP as 100%. The calibration tables indicates that it is set to show a 100% so that just bums me out.

The WGDC issue is caused by my intake restriction, this goes hand in hand with my flow. I maxed out on 224g/s. I removed the air filter and left the filter box open and logged it again, this time it maxed out at 243g/s, indicating to me that the turbo is sucking as hard as it can to get air in, hence the maxing out of the WGDC. Once I have fitted my Corksport stage 2 TIP and SRI I will go and log it again. Boost has spiked at 19.4 psi after removing the filter and opening the airbox. Slowly moving forward here......

Will update when the new logs are in........WIN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPS2NV

Try it with key on engine off, dsc not causing the issue?

---

I have done so mate and it still only goes to 67%