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Thread: BNR Stage 2 Turbo

  1. #1

    Default BNR Stage 2 Turbo

    Hi all,

    I thought I would update you on the latest work done to my Gen 2.

    Back in December I was at a track day doing 6 lap stints when the OEM turbo let go. It was quite the sight. Oil smoke everywhere followed by Red Flags.

    After a quick inspection it was a simple diagnoses. The turbo had blown a seal and turned into a second sump.

    After getting the car towed back to Sydney and missing most of the day, I went without for 4 weeks while parts were sourced and fitted. The timing of Christmas and New Years didn’t help to be fair. MRT have done everything to this point so it was a simple decision to get them to do the turbo. They even gave me a loan car for the duration.

    I had a couple of options. Mazda wanted something ridiculous for their turbo but given what had just happened it wasn’t really an option. I ended up going with a BNR stage 2. I was very clear with the guys at MRT that I wasn’t after any more power or torque. I just wanted a reliable car. The last thing I wanted was to start bending pistons and rods.

    Along with the damaged turbo, I also ruined the Air Fuel Ratio Sensor and Oxygen Sensor. Aren’t these two a nasty side expense! The battery was also replaced and it spent a few house on the Dyno getting retuned using the EcuTek software. That, along with the hours of labour pulling it all apart, cleaning the exhaust and putting it all back together, made for an expensive exercise.

    The result was what I expected. Despite not asking for more power, at 5200 rpm I gained an extra 6kw to 212kw. The noticeable difference is further up in the top end. At 6000 rpm power increased from 187kw to 210kw, so the overall result is a more consistent power band with no drop off at the top end. Torque has dropped off slightly at the bottom end but at revs over 4200 rpm I gain up to 15% more.

    To drive the car I don’t notice a massive difference. The first time I got in it after a month off, I thought it was going to take off to the moon, but I think that’s more a reflection of what I had been driving.

    The big difference I have noticed is the fuel economy. Around the city I’m getting 11.5L/100km and on the highway 8.9L/100km. I worked out its a combined 9.9L/100km which is bang on Mazda recommends and everyone know how inaccurate manufactures millage claims are. I’m getting 20% more power and torque with better millage than when I bought it off the showroom! Suitably impressed.

    Once again I must say how happy I am with the job MRT did. They took their time and got it right. I was updated the whole time and even had the opportunity to walk through the garage with Brett one night after knock off to show me how they were getting on.

    I have attached a Dynograph comparing the before and after turbo power and torque gains as well as some pics from the track day. Feel free to ask questions. And as I’ve always said, if anyone wants to take the car for a run one day, feel free to hit me up.

    TK

    P.S. Before anyone asks how much it all costs. One word. “Heaps”! But anyone who has been through what I’ve just done would know that and appreciate that it’s money well spent.
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  2. #2
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    hehe, that's a LOT of smoke.... glad to hear car is all fixed though

    but, maybe it's just me... but MRT dynos just arent impressive numbers wise... i would have expected more from a BNR S2....

  3. #3
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    Thats at the wheels power i know it says 'Flywheel' but it has to be at the wheels other wise his last tune 200ishkw is just above standard. Sam you can requist more power and they tune it harder, but he didnt want more power...
    Last edited by RedDjinn; 04-02-2012 at 07:54 AM.

  4. #4

    Default

    Power is at the wheels, torque is at the flywheel.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke 3mps View Post
    Thats at the wheels power i know it says 'Flywheel' but it has to be at the wheels other wise his last tune 200ishkw is just above standard. Sam you can requist more power and they tune it harder, but he didnt want more power...
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleredMPS View Post
    Power is at the wheels, torque is at the flywheel.
    dyno graph MRT gave me:


    that's untuned btw...

    so either my car is a serious freak, or there is something not quite right...
    anyways, at the end of the day, as long as TK is happy, that's all that matters
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
    From stock, to GT3071, to substantially less modded, many lessons learned!
    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarcasticOne View Post
    dyno graph MRT gave me:


    that's untuned btw...

    so either my car is a serious freak, or there is something not quite right...
    anyways, at the end of the day, as long as TK is happy, that's all that matters
    Sam i made 211 atw untuned TH dyno
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  7. #7

    Default

    Maybe there something different about your gen 1s to my gen 2? Not sure. They use a dynapack dyno like everyone else so all readings should be consistent. I was very specific when I said I wanted a reliable car. I'm not trying to build the worlds fastest mps. Just something goes, stops and turns better. I think I have that now.

    It was noted to me that the turbo was actually detuned (note the small drop in boost) to match the oem internal parts of the engine. I have no doubt this thing could unload and if I wanted it to, mrt would've tuned it to do so, but what's the point of that if I'm going to spend $10k rebuilding the engine in 6 months?

  8. Default

    Its important to remember the engine and parts package WILL MAKE MORE POWER, but at the genuine RISK of engine and rod failure. Our opinion based on testing is Troys car is a "sensible tune"
    Some people are willing to risk more and some ppl have cars that are hand gernads waiting to go off

    PLUS, the fuel economy even amazed us!


  9. #9
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    A few members are interested in the BNR option to upgrade their turbo's, Is the BNR due to oem design a simple replacement or are there small adjustments that need to be done to make it work?

    Quote Originally Posted by MRTBrett View Post
    Its important to remember the engine and parts package WILL MAKE MORE POWER, but at the genuine RISK of engine and rod failure. Our opinion based on testing is Troys car is a "sensible tune"
    Some people are willing to risk more and some ppl have cars that are hand gernads waiting to go off

    PLUS, the fuel economy even amazed us!

    Every man should have a V8 ute.....with a Chev badge.....and a Southern Cross sticker! Mods? What mods?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPS2NV View Post
    A few members are interested in the BNR option to upgrade their turbo's, Is the BNR due to oem design a simple replacement or are there small adjustments that need to be done to make it work?
    This^^^
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MPS2NV View Post
    A few members are interested in the BNR option to upgrade their turbo's, Is the BNR due to oem design a simple replacement or are there small adjustments that need to be done to make it work?
    The turbo bolts onto the the manifold and dump pipe without any need for modifications. There was some creative "plumbing" required for the oil lines but nothing a crafty mechanic like you Mitch couldn't come up with. I'll ask Brett next time I speak to him if you want specifics. You can have a look at mine though if you want?

  12. Default

    The turbo upgrade needs to be carefully chosen.
    We have now tuned many MPS's with many and varied mods.
    Some work, a lot dont.
    People often fit parts when they THINK they will help and then are upset when they dont get the result they hoped for.
    (IE CAI'S make ZERO power on these cars when compared to a good tune, they only help when the car has big internal mods and need a larger dia intake than the OEM MAF)

    We recently tuned a car that had big internal mods and it out flowed an aftermarket CAI and actually needed a new larger CAI and matching MAF with a complete retune to re scale the MAF.

    A new turbo is a good point, aint no benefit fitting one unless the car has at LEAST:
    ECU tune
    front half of zorst
    decat 2nd
    etc

    Then the turbo as Troy has found will give benefit up top, but not as much as CAN be gained in future when the internals of the engine are upgraded. As a result the turbo needs to be limited in its boost.

    Bottom line a new turbo is labour intensive, not 100% "bolt on" and needs a full blown custom retune..
    and this ads up

    I hope this helps

    Brett

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRTBrett View Post
    The turbo upgrade needs to be carefully chosen.
    We have now tuned many MPS's with many and varied mods.
    Some work, a lot dont.
    People often fit parts when they THINK they will help and then are upset when they dont get the result they hoped for.
    (IE CAI'S make ZERO power on these cars when compared to a good tune, they only help when the car has big internal mods and need a larger dia intake than the OEM MAF)

    We recently tuned a car that had big internal mods and it out flowed an aftermarket CAI and actually needed a new larger CAI and matching MAF with a complete retune to re scale the MAF.

    A new turbo is a good point, aint no benefit fitting one unless the car has at LEAST:
    ECU tune
    front half of zorst
    decat 2nd
    etc

    Then the turbo as Troy has found will give benefit up top, but not as much as CAN be gained in future when the internals of the engine are upgraded. As a result the turbo needs to be limited in its boost.

    Bottom line a new turbo is labour intensive, not 100% "bolt on" and needs a full blown custom retune..
    and this ads up

    I hope this helps

    Brett
    ^^ what he said!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRTBrett View Post
    The turbo upgrade needs to be carefully chosen.
    We have now tuned many MPS's with many and varied mods.
    Some work, a lot dont.
    People often fit parts when they THINK they will help and then are upset when they dont get the result they hoped for.
    (IE CAI'S make ZERO power on these cars when compared to a good tune, they only help when the car has big internal mods and need a larger dia intake than the OEM MAF)

    We recently tuned a car that had big internal mods and it out flowed an aftermarket CAI and actually needed a new larger CAI and matching MAF with a complete retune to re scale the MAF.

    A new turbo is a good point, aint no benefit fitting one unless the car has at LEAST:
    ECU tune
    front half of zorst
    decat 2nd
    etc

    Then the turbo as Troy has found will give benefit up top, but not as much as CAN be gained in future when the internals of the engine are upgraded. As a result the turbo needs to be limited in its boost.

    Bottom line a new turbo is labour intensive, not 100% "bolt on" and needs a full blown custom retune..
    and this ads up

    I hope this helps

    Brett
    Yep good old black beast, many people learned a few things. Was a learning one for me lol..
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

  15. #15
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    I'm thinking BNR S2, but at the same time will be doing at least the 2XS twin dp and cat back + CpE side and tranny mounts. Currently have FMIC, TIP, CAI and tune the question is will it be worth investing in some headers?

    Or will the extra low down torque they provide be putting to much strain on the stock internals.

    Currently love the way the car drive and feels would like some more top end power and mid range nm so i think a BNR S2 is the best bang for the $$$, without changing too much bolt on stuff. Would only be wanting to run a MAX of 19 - 20 psi through the engine for safety proposes, the smallest amount the BNR 2 can run is about 17 i believe.
    MPSX-treme

    2006 MPS Sports True Red - HP-F Mazedit tune + Other go fast bits - DGR Coilovers + Semi Slicks - Numerous Sure Motorsport Additions - Dashhawk

  16. #16
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    Get a fuel pump as well
    Personally, think either stage 1 or 3 is way to go... just in terms of value for money

    By 19-20 psi, did you want to hold that through to red line? Or just mid range? Stock turbo is capable of 18 psi from about 3000 to 4500 rpm efficiently

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Last edited by SarcasticOne; 05-02-2012 at 04:33 PM.
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
    From stock, to GT3071, to substantially less modded, many lessons learned!
    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

  17. #17
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    For the stage 3 BNR i just need to get a larger Inlet pipe yes? Currently the CAI that i've got from HP-F is 3 or 3.5 inch in diameter.

    Does anything else need to change? If i want to run a max psi of 20 is a stage 3 even necessary? Cause its only $100 more for that but then the other way might be worthwhile only getting a stage 1 to save me the $200 odd.

    Fuel pump internals are very close too
    MPSX-treme

    2006 MPS Sports True Red - HP-F Mazedit tune + Other go fast bits - DGR Coilovers + Semi Slicks - Numerous Sure Motorsport Additions - Dashhawk

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    For the stage 3 BNR i just need to get a larger Inlet pipe yes? Currently the CAI that i've got from HP-F is 3 or 3.5 inch in diameter.

    Does anything else need to change? If i want to run a max psi of 20 is a stage 3 even necessary? Cause its only $100 more for that but then the other way might be worthwhile only getting a stage 1 to save me the $200 odd.

    Fuel pump internals are very close too
    Other thing to remember, 15 psi on a stage 3 is much more air than 15 psi on a stock turbo

    A bnr uses stock inlet pipe if memory serves correctly, so if your cai fits a stock Turbo, you're fine for a bnr...

    Here is a dyno graph of someone's bnr stage 3:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	uploadfromtaptalk1328483663635.jpg 
Views:	326 
Size:	57.9 KB 
ID:	10336

    400hp is 300kw
    300ftlb is 400NM

    Stock block as a fyi...

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
    From stock, to GT3071, to substantially less modded, many lessons learned!
    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarcasticOne View Post
    Other thing to remember, 15 psi on a stage 3 is much more air than 15 psi on a stock turbo

    A bnr uses stock inlet pipe if memory serves correctly, so if your cai fits a stock Turbo, you're fine for a bnr...

    Here is a dyno graph of someone's bnr stage 3:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	uploadfromtaptalk1328483663635.jpg 
Views:	326 
Size:	57.9 KB 
ID:	10336

    400hp is 300kw
    300ftlb is 400NM

    Stock block as a fyi...

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Yeah that's what i'm thinking about the air flow, BNR say that the stage 2 flows 10% more air then stock so i guess the stage 3 might do 20 - 25% more then stock... In that case wouldn't need to run big boost to make moderate power.
    MPSX-treme

    2006 MPS Sports True Red - HP-F Mazedit tune + Other go fast bits - DGR Coilovers + Semi Slicks - Numerous Sure Motorsport Additions - Dashhawk

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Yeah that's what i'm thinking about the air flow, BNR say that the stage 2 flows 10% more air then stock so i guess the stage 3 might do 20 - 25% more then stock... In that case wouldn't need to run big boost to make moderate power.
    That 10% more is over the BNR stage 1, BNR stage one flows more than standard..
    Many want Power not many hold it long.........

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