Lpg

[nemesis214]

Hi Guys,
During one of my many Google searches I came across LPG direct injection. Has anyone else looked at this or have any idea who I can talk to about it? Now I know that a lot you may have negative things to say about LPG and its many previous applications, but on the face of it, it looks like a good idea. Especially with PULP prices nudging $1.70.

Vialle Alternative Fuel Systems*-*LPdi_UK*-*

Regards
Karl

[Victa]

Mmm, early testing by an aussie mob with liquid gas injection (not Direct injection) showed better power and better fuel economy than petrol in an unmodified engine...

This was put down to the cooling effect of the boiling LPG as it chaged state from liquid to gas...

Could be very interesting in our direct injection, high compression, high boost engines (more intercooling FTW?)

Chris.

[andy b]

Hi Karl, I have looked into LPG direct injection on my MPS6 and can share some information with you.

Recently a system has been introduced for the new Commodore SIDI engines which features vapour port injection. This system shuts off the petrol injectors and injects LPG through the port injectors added in the conversion. Apparently this system has certain strategies to avoid petrol injector failure (petrol cools injectors as it flows through and this protects from the combustion chamber heat) however there have been a number of reported issues where the petrol injectors have still been damaged. I would not consider this system as it would not offer suitable performance or reliability.

I have been reading with interest on a direct LPG injection system from ICOM called the JTG HP. It taps into the high pressure fuel rail and injects LPG through the existing petrol injectors. There are a number of advantages to this system, it reduces injector failure by maintaining fuel flow for cooling, will result in identical (if not improved) performance, better economy and importantly it uses less added parts therefore the cost should be less.

Australian LPG Warehouse seem to be the authorised distributor for this system and I have contacted them regarding suitability for the MPS6/3, the gentleman I spoke with didn't seem to know what I meant so I explained that the 2.3L MZR DISI Turbo engine in the MPS6/3 and CX-7 are fundamentally the same and he told me that they are looking to release a system for the CX-7. When questioned about timeframe, he suggested 6 months or more.

It certainly sounds interesting as there are few disadvantages with modern LPG systems (with the exception of the tank). In fact, I have seen improvements of 5kW in the FPV F6 and 15kW in the Toyota Aurion!

[nemesis214]

Thanks Chris and Andy for your input. I'm surprised that on a forum as active as this that this has not been looked into before (did a search with nil find). I like the idea of LPG. Obviously the cost, but the increased performance and hopefully a reduction in black smoke from the exhaust is up there as well. I can only assume that in the right hands the tuning potential would be huge because of the much higher octane rating.

I have only had limited experience with gas vehicles before, the last being in 2006 when I was driving general duties Falcons. Fortunately, I have now moved on to a XR6 turbo . I was approached by a mechanic specialising in LPG fit outs to supply, fit and maintain a Liquid Injected LPG system to one of the Turbos and the powers that be knocked it on the head. Considering the NSWPF will only allow us to run 91 octane fuel, the performance and savings potential would of been huge across the fleet. Especially, taking into account most HWP vehicles are lucky to realise 25-28l/100km.

Has anyone else fitted Liquid LPG injection to their cars? What are your thoughts?

Karl

[andy b]

You could tell me, why do all NSW HWP XR6 Turbos have BA F6 Typhoon wheels?

[nemesis214]

They are fitted with the larger tyre/wheel package because the brakes are upgraded to Brembos (on the front anyway) and wont fit the standard wheels because of the diameter. The rears are off the territory. Brilliant brakes BTW.

[andy b]

Interesting, will make it easy to spot a second hand one

But back to LPG cars, I can't imagine your opinion would have been too great with a Falcon XT on gas, they're a pretty low-tech sort of system. My uncle has just gotten out of an AUIII Dedicated LPG and into an FG E-gas, and while it goes alright, the sticker consumption is huge, the power is down and it's stuck with the 4 speed auto.

[Grajy]

LPG in an MPS? Why bother? You buy a performance car, but don't wanna pay the premium tag that goes along with it?
Shame shame shame.
LPG = money saving
Sports car = money spending
One or the other... Not both.
BTW, I'm a mechanic by trade. I know the risks of using LPG on an engine without a built bottom end. Reason Ford refuses warranty with aftermarket gas systems. Dedicated LPG vehicles have forged internals. MPS' do NOT. LPG is an unpredictable fuel. Wanna risk it?
Would I use LPG in a 30 year old car? Bet your ass I wouldn't...

My 2.3 cents...

[nemesis214]

Andy,
The wheels get swapped back to stock once the car gets decommissioned. So I guess if you're looking for one just look for one that looks like the wheels and tyres are brand new and you wont go far wrong. Word of advice. Never, ever buy an ex police car. They get absolutely raped! My last XR6 had 3 turbos in 2 years, plus engine mount issues, coolant leaks, squeaks, shakes and rattles. The SS seem to fair a bit better. Anyway I digress

Grajy, I understand your mentality, to a degree, in relation to the MPS being a performance oriented car. But imagine if you could have the same or better performance, lower emissions (though hardly a concern to the individual) and ultimately lower running costs along with a decreased dependence on off-shore oil supplies. All this with the only inconvenience of losing the spare tyre well (which some cars have done away with in any event). Why wouldn't you?

Just to clarify. If the car makes the same or nearly the same power on LPG that it does on petrol why would it need strengthened internals? Surely, there would be no increase in internal stresses leading to metal fatigue or wear issues?

Can someone clear this up for me?
Karl

[Yeldarb]

They do this a lot for diesels. You can get tremendous range improvements based on the increased economy from a better burn. Plus there is a performance gain as well. But is all about economy.

My car is all about performance. It's economic enough, 8l/100ks, but I drive to have a good time. I wouldn't ever consider a second tank plus the ancillary equipment that goes with it.

Want economy and power, maybe buy a euro diesel and chip it. Or an electric car :P