Smoking and Turbo Seals

[08mps]

I installed the CPE TBE on my MPS at home with a mate, cant see how it would even be possible to damage the seals during the install??? The seals are INSIDE the turbo housing, no way they could be damaged when fitting the downpipe....

my thoughts exactly plain and simple **** turbo from factory how many other late model turbo cars do you see running around with this issue standard or not

[kblume]

has anyone had this problem on their 08 models or does the 08 model ahve the revised parts already?

My 2008.5 had minor smoking at idle after installing the CPE TBE, but changing from 5w30 to 10w40 oil and adding the CPE XcelNANO SRI has gotten rid of it..

[Nexus]

For those interested in further clarifying this, please respond to the poll and state your case. Please no "it's just a bad part" without backing this up with some information.

re: can't damage the seals because they're inside the housing - I have recently in a clients laptop seen bearing damage in a hard disk due to a slight mis-alignment of a retaining mechanism. It wasn't obvious when things are screwed down, nothing seemed excessively resistant but that small misalignment caused the bearings to squeal when the system was turned on or the laptop to vibrate when gentle pressure was placed on the outside of the case, where one would often rest ones wrist. I never would have thought it possible, but it seems it is.

It got escalated to me because the lower level techs were all scratching their heads...like....????

The bearing is enclosed in the center of the casing, the casing is quite rigid; billet aluminium and the only portion of the bearing visible sits nowhere near anything that could foul it.

Forgive me for not being convinced the seals can't be damaged in service because they are inside a housing.

Yes, I am playing devils advocate a little here, but this is simply to try and get clear data, as this is something that has not really been clarified in other discussions I've seen.

The backpressure explanation seems plausible.

I have to say - if this is a common widespread issue in many MPS, I would not expect the vehicles to meet their advertised emissions, making them unroadworthy and placing mazda in all kinds of sh*t if it can be demonstrated to be the case.

I am not convinced it is that widespread because I fail to see how this could go on for a long period without degrading and becoming an obvious fault.

[shakespeare]

No problems for me (yet) Oct 06 build, registered Feb 07 with 43,000kms on the clock, only engine mode was the CPE CAI at around 30,000kms am doing the exhaust next, most likely corksport TBE, Apologies for hijacking but any recommendations from anyone? ie. should I do the mod before the warranty expires in the hope that it will produce smoking???

[remotegt]

i aont got enough km's on my 08 to find out. only at 13500km at the moment

[Nexus]

No problems for me (yet) Oct 06 build, registered Feb 07 with 43,000kms on the clock, only engine mode was the CPE CAI at around 30,000kms am doing the exhaust next, most likely corksport TBE, Apologies for hijacking but any recommendations from anyone? ie. should I do the mod before the warranty expires in the hope that it will produce smoking???

Not really hijackthing there, that's part of what we are trying to figure out. My theory at present is that this should be apparent during any emissions test. Not sure how practical that is, hoping some of the mechanic types can weigh in on that.

[Jmac]

Ive got no issues yet. 07 Build, 35,xxxKMS.
Stock exhaust..

[MattMPS3]

Would engine coolant show up in an emission test though, aside from the plumes of smoke immediately apparent when the seals have failed I dont know what sort of result you would achieve, I can understand how oil would foul up sensors and cats altering the basic emissions from the vehicle.

[kmh001]

My understanding is that emissions tests would not detect anything in the case of leaking seals if secondary combustion is occurring in the cats. Also as Matt has suggested, a coolant leak in the turbine housing would be unlikely to register anything on an emissions test given that ethylene glycol burns mostly into water molecules.

Emissions tests sample hydrocarbon (HC) which is unburnt fuel, and carbon monoxide (CO). A good testing machine will also sample oxygen and carbon dioxide, not because they are pollutants, but because comparing the ratio of O2 and CO2 to HC and CO allows a more detailed analysis.

I don't think the sniffer is looking for the right things in this case. And since we're discussing emissions tests, it's a given in the testing world that cats mask a lot of the nasties that could be coming out of an engine.

Here's an example:
"Reading HC and CO at the tailpipe to diagnose emission problems may not give you the complete picture because the catalytic converter "masks" many problems by significantly lowering HC and CO in the exhaust. "

This is not really my area of expertise, but I suspect you could put a smoking MPS onto a sniffer and pass the test. Although it obviously wouldn't pass the visual test.

It would seem that paradoxically, a discussion of emissions testing strengthens the theory that the cats are masking what could be a widespread problem.

[Nexus]

If it's oil leaking, I'd expect fairly quick thick smoke symptoms, cat poisoned and O2 sensor fouled + foul smell. I doubt there'd really be much chance of masking this for any length of time.

If coolant, I wouldn't be expecting much smell from ethylene glycol and water. Burn't plastic smell doesn't strike me as consistent with a coolant leak. I could be wrong.

With regards to emissions, presuming this is coolant leak - I would expect reduced CAT temperatures, potentially resulting in markedly higher oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust. While the HC / CO / O2 ratios are the main things to measure burn characteristics, elevated NO levels in exhaust might be a good indicator of the CATS efficiency which in turn might help indicate an otherwise undetected coolant leak at the turbo. Not to mention the obvious additional H2O.

I am wondering if anyone noticed coolant or oil being consumed prior to the turbo seal failure becoming an evident fault?