Ask spudspec

[Spudspec]

Hello everyone. Well given I may come across as a know it all, which I am not, I just like to cshare my experience, I started this thread to provide a base Knowledge centre. I have experience with Mazda as a manufacturer and have friends who work at the Hiroshima plant and also the MIYOSHI proving grounds. 2 guys in particular were the key chassis, tyre and wheel tuning guys for the MPS range. I have seen so much testing and prototype work it is amazing. My background is I used to work for Kinetic Suspension Technology, where I was assigned to a Mazda platform( sorry, Top secret) I also worked on a Formula Nippon Project and my biggest achievent was to work in with NISMo Super GT car. and prior to that spent a considerable amount of my after hours time building rally/race cars, testing and racing, Manufacturing hot up parts and occasional fabrications. I have also worked For A University where I was an integral part of manufacturing all the partd for their Formula SAE car, Now I work as an oil annalysis Technician.
SO I open my self up to you all (with out takin tha Piss) I will answer what I can, If I dont have an answer then I am sure between us all we can work it out.
Cheers
SPUD

[andy b]

Ever drive the 626 MPS?

[TD]

Possibly a simple one for you...

If you had to setup a 3MPS to handle better yet still be usable day-to-day on Australia's crappy roads how would you do it and why?

Thanks for posting, I'm sure I'll think of more questions! Do your mates know much about the ECU's in our cars?

[Yeldarb]

Possibly a simple one for you...

If you had to setup a 3MPS to handle better yet still be usable day-to-day on Australia's crappy roads how would you do it and why?

Thanks for posting, I'm sure I'll think of more questions! Do your mates know much about the ECU's in our cars?

Nice one Dan...I like that question!

[2XS]

Where do you live?

[Spudspec]

No. infact I only ever got to drive My MPS 6. and Only got to be a passenger in the prototype SUV I was working on there.

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------

I am In perth. To Answer the Handling for the 3MPS, that is a tough Question. it is always a compromise(unless you have Kinetic suspension) So to start with you need to set a budget, keeping in mind that to make it nice, it is gunna cost $$$.
I think if you keep the OE springs and Shocks, and maybe upgrade the swaybars, and then we need to find a way to change camber ETC on the front end. ( sorry I need to admit, I never seen the 3 mps suspension setup, I know the 6 MPS is not adjustable, and no one makes adjusters for the camber yet. As with all cars road and race, Suspension setup is Key, so again you need to focus on a compromise. Front end setup will make the acr work better, and changing the swaybars will also make it handle differently. I probably will say stuff you all already know, sorry for that, but it is a process of deciding what you want to focus on. if you stiffen the Shocks and springs, will handle great, ride crap. If you go soft for comfort, handling is a bit less. By stiffening the swaybars a bit, should make it turn better, but might give the car a little bit more tugging into bumps on the road, but over the finer stuff it will not be as savage as stiffer springs. If you can do the bars and change the front alignment, you should be able to make it handle great, even make it oversteer somewhat.
as for ECUs, no. they were totally Chassis. I have sent an email to my good friend their, so I will await his reply as to what he reckons.

[lup15]

what do you think about chassis bracing? I'm in the camp where a chassis can never be too stiff, but there is always the law of diminishing returns. Which areas will be most beneficial for the MPS 3 giving the most improvements (bang for buck)?

edit: further to add, I understand if you stiffen the chassis, you will need to make adjustments to the suspension to make use of the added stiffness. I suppose the art of suspension tuning is exactly that, an art. So to put a limit, I will ask if you could give some information in the context of a road going car using purely non-adjustable shock absorbers (i.e. not coilovers) with progressive springs. I'm sure others would also appreciate suggestions with the use of coilovers where adjustments are possible.

cheers

[Chuckie Cheese]

Perth eh?

Remind me to come to you if I have any problems!

[andy b]

we need to find a way to change camber ETC on the front end. ( sorry I need to admit, I never seen the 3 mps suspension setup, I know the 6 MPS is not adjustable, and no one makes adjusters for the camber yet.

What about the SuperPro eccentric bushing kits? Mazda 6 camber kit and bushings from Fulcrum Suspensions

[Spudspec]

what do you think about chassis bracing? I'm in the camp where a chassis can never be too stiff, but there is always the law of diminishing returns. Which areas will be most beneficial for the MPS 3 giving the most improvements (bang for buck)?

edit: further to add, I understand if you stiffen the chassis, you will need to make adjustments to the suspension to make use of the added stiffness. I suppose the art of suspension tuning is exactly that, an art. So to put a limit, I will ask if you could give some information in the context of a road going car using purely non-adjustable shock absorbers (i.e. not coilovers) with progressive springs. I'm sure others would also appreciate suggestions with the use of coilovers where adjustments are possible.

cheers

Chassis Bracing is good if you are into sporty driving and a bit of track work, otherwise i am of the belief, it takes approx 51/2 years of development before you see the car, and I can tell you now the durability course at Miyoshi is not easy, 1 lap simulates 1000 kms, of harsh driving. after 1 lap, they have to stop and change to a different driver. So for everyday use, there is no real need to brace the chassis. BUT, if you do brace the chassis, then it is really up to the individual, the suspension as standard I find on my 6mps is very refined and works well. once you go changing stuff, it is difficult to have a general setup. even simple things like putting a different set of rims/ tyres, slotted and drilled drakes, all that will change the unsprung mass, which will alsso mean the Dampers wont be as effective, the spring rates will react different. I am going to admit, Springs are abit of my weak point, All the stuff I have done has been with dampers, as the springs have been already pre determined. I can tell you that the swaybars on the 3mps are a tricky setup, it took the guys over 6 months of constant tuning to get a happy point, and then the project manager decided that he wanter to use a different tyre, guess what, another 4 moths of intense tuning on springs, swaybars and dampers.. so it is not a simple matter of just chuck in a set of coil overs or eibach springs or koni shocks etc.... ANYWAY, I digressed. The most important thing is to make sure you are content to with the prospect that either it is going to cost an absolute crap load of cash, or it is going to be a compromise between Comfort, and good handling.
All that said, I personally wouldn't change just the springs as the dampers will not work right. Dampers are what makes a car, hence whay it usually costs 15-20,000 bucks to put suspension on some of the worlds fastest rally cars, I think a set of MCAs to suit a WRX is about 10k. then you need to tune them for what you want. sorry to ramble on. It is a black art getting the compromise, and each individual is different.

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

Oh forgot to add, I would be really interested to ride in a few cars that have different setups, 1 so I can feel the quality and see the effect it has on comfort and handling, 2 because I love seeing what people have and how they use the car. One thing I will always remember is the MAZDA DNA- the Zoom Zoom, it stands for - Steering Handling and then ride comfort. in that order.

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 AM ----------

What about the SuperPro eccentric bushing kits? Mazda 6 camber kit and bushings from Fulcrum Suspensions

Thanks for that, I am looking into it now, I saw them there the other day, The only problem with eccentric bushes is, they change a number of things, not just camber. the caster will change and the geometry under bump and rebound will be affected. maybe not too much of a problem on the road under normal driving conditions, but I found in the past after having fitted them on the rear of my old car, the squat changed and effectively made the car unstable over bumps, and almost undrivable. hence, removal of eccentric bushes.
Although I am willing to try it, if someone has a set, would love to compare to my car, as if they work, I will be ording a set asap. these cars do need camber, even the mazda guys say that, eccept due to the "safety factor and cost" they have to set them as they are.