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Thread: Torque steer !!!! What torque steer !!!

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    YOU LOSE is offline Banned
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    Cool Torque steer !!!! What torque steer !!!

    I am allways being asked with that power in a fwd isn't the torque steer unbearable , even dangerous so that has promted me to start this thread , oh yes you are correct in saying there are other threads about torque steer the animal the motoring jurno's love to hate ,the vice the MPS is" infamous " for but this is not a thread about torque steering MPS'S but the lack of torque steer in my MPS MADAZ .

    MADAZ is a modded MPS with more power going to the front wheels than stock but it has 90% less torque steer than a standard MPS in the Dry & about 50% less in the wet .

    HOW CAN THIS BE YOU ASK ????
    COULD IT BE THAT YOU LOSE HAS LOST THE PLOT !!
    OR COULD IT BE HE IS FULL OF ????
    I WILL EXPLAIN BELOW !!!!










    MODAFICATIONS TO TEMPER TORQUE STEER IN MY MPS 3
    • RECALIBRATED FLYBY WIRE THROTTLE IN THE ECU .( FEEDS THE POWER TO THE WHEELS IN A MUCH MORE LINIER FASHION THROUGH THE REV RANGE )
    • 8"RIMS WITH YOKAHAMA S DRIVE TYRES ( IF YOUR TYRES TRAMLINE THEY WILL ALSO BE PRONE TO TORQUE STEER MORE THAN A TYRE THAT DOESN'T , SAME FOR WET ROADS IF YOUR TYRE HAS BELOW AVERAGE GRIP THEN IT WILL T/S MORE EASILY IN THE WET ).tyre technoligy has improved 10 fold over the last 10years , if you are a serious driver in a high performance car tyres like the S DRIVE with the nano technoligy, silicone rubber compounds , carbon fibre continous banding are almost as good in the wet & absolutely brilliant in the dry & take meters of braking distances in the wet or dry 'thier tread patterns have been designed to pump umungus amounts of water from the road minimising aquaplaning & allowing you to safely drive at higher speeds on wet roads , Yes they cost more than cheaper tyres ,but unless you drive like my grandmother you are selling yourself short .The only thing between you & the black stuff is the quality of the rubber you have chosen for your high performance MPS . I know I will be at odds with some but the price should never decide what tyre you buy for a MPS If you drive sensibly in the suburbs not doing burnouts ,wheel spinning around corners & traffic light drags lighting up the tyres these softer compound tyres should last 25 to 30 k or if you hoon every where you go they will be lucky to reach 10 to 15 k but that is not the tyres fault it is your fault !!! .If you don't get any wet weather where you live or you don't drive in wet conditions then the KU 36'S are a value for money buy very sticky on dry roads but in the wet they are less than average compared to tyres like S drive . Bottom line you only get what you pay for .My 245 rear S drives are only just now worn down to the wear indicators they have done 78 k . For the same 78 k I am on my 4 th set of 225 front tyres but of course I can,t rotate the fronts to the rear .
    • REAR ENGINE MOUNT CP-E 75 DURO . A MUST DO MOD IN MY OPINION !!
    • COIL OVER SUSPENTION WITH AJUSTABLE RIDE HIGHT LOWERED & NEGITIVE CAMBER TO FRONT WHEELS .FRONT SET FIRM REAR SET SOFT ( this made the biggest contribution to cutting down the t/s but all of the above work together in my experiance )
    • AFTERMARKET SWAY BARS FRONT & REAR SET FIRM F& R ( WHILS'T I DON'T THINK THE SWAR BARS ACTUALLY REDUCE T/S THEY ARE THE LAST MOD I DID & THEY ARE THE ICING ON THE CAKE SO TO SPEAK THEY SEEM TO TIE THE SUSPENTION TOGETHER WITH INCREDIBLE DRIVER FEED BACK & BRILLIANT GO KART HANDLING & TURN IN WHICH INSPIRERS CONFIDENCE AT ANY SPEED .
    • ABOVE ARE THE MODS IN THE PROGRESIVE ORDER THAT THEY WERE INSTALLED & EVALUATED
    • NOTE ....I RUN 245 X35 REARS 225 X 40 FRONTS @ 38 PSI ALL ROUND SO ROTATING TYRES FOR ME IS NOT AN OPTION ALSO THE RIDE QUALITY IS SUPRISINGLY GOOD ,NOT TEETH & BONE CHATTERING HARSH, IT IS FIRM BUT QUITE BEARABLE ,THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS .
    • NOTE IT IS ALSO ESSENTIAL THAT YOU HAVE A 4 WHEEL ALINMENT DONE BY SOME ONE REPUTABLE .
    Col
    Last edited by YOU LOSE; 30-11-2010 at 08:57 AM.

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    Nice work Col.
    I noticed lack of torque steer straight after I had my first tune.
    Since then I've stepped up to 8 inch wide wheels, 235 width tyres, CP-E rear mount, Adjustable Koni shocks with King Springs.

    80% less torque steer is easy to believe...

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    I'd second that, there is not as much torque steer in this car as to mine by a long shot. Once the folding stuff starts to come back in I will be following this procedure now that I've driven this car. I would take seconds and lots of them compared to my setup on my car which is NIL for track use. Your right Col I was driving it like a GoKart I was throwing it around like one that is,which is no way possible in my car and I glad I had the chance to drive it and do to it that I would never do to mine and the trust you had in me, not that I wanted to do it without your pushing, I couldn't put the trust in anyone in my car Col the way I drove it. Cheers O and I thank you for letting me know how far down it was on the gillies without and road barriers....... That slowed me down considering the rear wheels were slipping on the white double lines in the wet....
    Last edited by 240MPS; 20-11-2010 at 06:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240MPS View Post
    I'd second that, there is not as much torque steer in this car as to mine by a long shot. Once the folding stuff starts to come back in I will be following this procedure now that I've driven this car. I would take seconds and lots of them compared to my setup on my car which is NIL for track use. Your right Col I was driving it like a GoKart I was throwing it around like one that is,which is no way possible in my car and I glad I had the chance to drive it and do to it that I would never do to mine and the trust you had in me, not that I wanted to do it without your pushing, I couldn't put the trust in anyone in my car Col the way I drove it. Cheers O and I thank you for letting me know how far down it was on the gillies without and road barriers....... That slowed me down considering the rear wheels were slipping on the white double lines in the wet....
    And I thought you were just being a nice guy letting us pass!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 03blk View Post
    And I thought you were just being a nice guy letting us pass!
    I shit myself Tom, I hate heights and i started to shake, Col will tell you my legs were trembling on the go pedal and my arms were shaking and when I let you guys through I said to Col I hope nothing happens when you screamed pass, it looked pretty fast at the speed I was going at,at the time I can't believe there is no barriers to stop cars dropping to their death,Col was saying they probably lose a bike rider every week.....
    Last edited by 240MPS; 20-11-2010 at 07:55 PM.

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    Awesome post Col!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    One thing to note regarding the tyres, I have the Kumho KU36. I had my dealer rotate my tyres and noticed instantly I started to torque steer and tramline. I changed the tyre pressures to what I normally to in 42front 38rear and the tramlining and torque steer much improved.

    Its a good way to see if torque steer will improve by trying to reduce tramlining as they seem to be related, in my experience anyway. Good place to start is by testing different pressures. You will end up with a balance between torque steer and traction
    Last edited by lup15; 20-11-2010 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lup15 View Post
    One thing to note regarding the tyres, I have the Kumho KU36. I had my dealer rotate my tyres and noticed instantly I started to torque steer and tramline. I changed the tyre pressures to what I normally to in 42front 38rear and the tramlining and torque steer much improved.

    Its a good way to see if torque steer will improve by trying to reduce tramlining as they seem to be related, in my experience anyway. Good place to start is by testing different pressures. You will end up with a balance between torque steer and traction
    When you modify you suspension it will be a win / win less t/s more traction


    Col
    Last edited by YOU LOSE; 23-11-2010 at 09:34 PM.

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    Great info Col, you're da man!

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOU LOSE View Post
    When you modify you suspension it will be a win / win less t/s more traction


    Col
    Col, did you ever look into the anti-lift control-arm bushes that Troy (2XS) got from Fulcrum???

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    Still more torque steer than AWD Nissan's

    Yes I'm with Col have driven Madaz a few times and very limited amount of torque steer for the power

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    No. 1: I'd say a tune was the best thing for the torque steer issue. It removes the "agression" from the car. (the reason the engine mounts break.)
    No. 2: Next would have to be tyre pressure. Work it out on your own, trial various pressures front to rear.
    No. 3: Definately suspension, springs only, or even going to coil-overs.

    Tyres are a good thing, getting your car to grip with the POS Bridgestones, now that's a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by AD07 View Post
    Col, did you ever look into the anti-lift control-arm bushes that Troy (2XS) got from Fulcrum???
    They helped with axle tramp. once you pass the HP Vs grip threshold, get them. And I don't mean standard MPS traction loss. Try 4th gear on the highway type of thing.






    One thing to note:

    I gave my car to a friend to drive (230kw ATW Datsun 1600 SR20) Being that he drives a RWD, driving mine the comment was made, "That has too much torque steer" Going from RWD to FWD will cause the torque steer to appear (to the RWD driver anyway) and from this is where I believe the "motoring journo" makes the comment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AD07 View Post
    Col, did you ever look into the anti-lift control-arm bushes that Troy (2XS) got from Fulcrum???

    No I havn't, but I will , thanks

    Col

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    I still reckon much of the torque steer "issue" can be fixed by running correct tyre pressures for your tyres...and a decent alignment to boot.

    But interesting comments on the coil overs Col, I reckon that setup would help also.

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    Good point about the axle tramp Troy I certainly have not cured that and getting tractions on the standard brigstones well better you than me !!! Having said that I refrain from doing standing still launches I found that playing with tyre presures only reduced t/s by about 20% 42/ 45 psi still had plenty of t/s after tune may be about 40% less ,you are right in saying the tune goes a long way to curing t/s along with tyre presures, I always have had 4 wheel chassis alinments Dan .Any way with the exta power & torque I will go as far to say t/s in the dry has actually been reduced in my car to almost nill by the proceedure I posted above I'll go out on a limb & say 90 to 95 % gone to be honest ,I expect Rino & LILZLR to bring me into line if they disagree Also worth noting is I am running 18psi boost which would not help fwd torque steer I wouldn't think .At the end of the day I posted what I have done to end up with a brilliant handling non torque steering Mps I also realise others on here will have there own opinions & thats fine as well .

    Col

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    Oh I'm not disagreeing with your comments at all Col, just to clarify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TallDan View Post
    Oh I'm not disagreeing with your comments at all Col, just to clarify.
    Haaa haaa Dan I realise that !! I don't mind even if you did disagree you are entitled to your opinion mate . I just wanted you to know that I have 4 wheel alinments some thing I should have put in the original post ,thanks for bringing it up

    Col
    Last edited by YOU LOSE; 25-11-2010 at 09:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOU LOSE View Post
    Good point about the axle tramp Troy I certainly have not cured that and getting tractions on the standard brigstones well better you than me !!! Having said that I refrain from doing standing still launches I found that playing with tyre presures only reduced t/s by about 20% 42/ 45 psi still had plenty of t/s after tune may be about 40% less ,you are right in saying the tune goes a long way to curing t/s along with tyre presures, I always have had 4 wheel chassis alinments Dan .Any way with the exta power & torque I will go as far to say t/s in the dry has actually been reduced in my car to almost nill by the proceedure I posted above I'll go out on a limb & say 90 to 95 % gone to be honest ,I expect Rino & LILZLR to bring me into line if they disagree Also worth noting is I am running 18psi boost which would not help fwd torque steer I wouldn't think .At the end of the day I posted what I have done to end up with a brilliant handling non torque steering Mps I also realise others on here will have there own opinions & thats fine as well .

    Col

    Col I don't recall any Torque Steer what so ever and you know and the guys knew from behind me when they could see me in front of them that I wasn't cruising,and like I said to you if this was my car there would be no way I would have got away with it and I would of definately noticed if you had torque steer..... And to top it off the car was so well balanced I had no back issues that night like I normally do in my car and I never backed off like I do in my car, i tend to back off in my car when my neck and back can't bear the corners any longer similar to the go karting Col at Mareeba my body shuts down when the pain gets to great that's why in the 3rd race with the faster kart I couldn't get the speed into the corners because the entry speed was to great to cope with hence the reason I gave up racing 15 years ago ..... Look you can go on and on, everyone has different needs I jumped in Cols car and I would of thought this car was set up for me to race it was just perfect I reckon I could whip Jake in a race but it wouldn't be fair with the different power out put but he would out perform me in the braking department.....

    Col one thing I have notice over the years and my brother is a bad case of it, he has 600HP out of his car with NO brake upgrade from a 1975 year car when brakes were shit and only now I have convinced him to upgrade and Col as good as the brakes are on the MPS when you got a car that has this power and the way it corners people tend to forget about better brakes????????? One of my reasons I have stopped with the power gain and looking at brakes before I go any further, when some money comes in.




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    I hear what you say Rino I think the standard mps brakes are good up to a point , first thing on my list will be brembo 4 spot calipers all round & slotted & drilled disks & braided brake lines but will need to sell the YOU LOSE plates first .

    Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOU LOSE View Post
    I hear what you say Rino I think the standard mps brakes are good up to a point
    From my point of view, it's refreshing to for once have a car where brakes aren't the first thing I need to upgrade.

    As you say Col, they're good up to a point, but it's nice that "that point" has a bit of headroom there to be able to consider some mild performance modding and know the stock brakes (even with some minor pad and fluid upgrades) are up to the task.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeine Fiend View Post
    From my point of view, it's refreshing to for once have a car where brakes aren't the first thing I need to upgrade.

    As you say Col, they're good up to a point, but it's nice that "that point" has a bit of headroom there to be able to consider some mild performance modding and know the stock brakes (even with some minor pad and fluid upgrades) are up to the task.

    MPS 3 brakes are fine up to 220klm's after that they are sub standard, for track work the mps would really benifit from a brake upgrade , for the road & the speed limits on the highways standard MPS brakes are fine I think Rino is correct in saying for a modded MPS on track days they definately need a brake upgrade ,when I get some spare cash that is exactly what I will be doing

    Col

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    the crazy torque steer is one of the reasons I bought the car. Its like a bit of a wild element in the cars character. And I definitely notice it less after driving it for a while, its why its probably more of a shock to people when they first go for a drive. hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by stug View Post
    the crazy torque steer is one of the reasons I bought the car. Its like a bit of a wild element in the cars character. And I definitely notice it less after driving it for a while, its why its probably more of a shock to people when they first go for a drive. hahaha
    I know what you mean , but when you up the engine performance it can become a pain in the arse , especially in the wet & through the twisties

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