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Thread: Alcon 4 Pot Caliper Kit Install

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    Reedy's Avatar
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    Default Alcon 4 Pot Caliper Kit Install

    Big thanks to Mitch and 2NV Industries for making this all happen. The kit took a while to arrive but we finally fitted her up today and the results are pretty damn good.

    A few notes:
    The fitment template was a bit wrong but my Enkei Fujin 18x8 +50 are very close to clearing. A 2-3mm shim is all that is required to make these wheels fit so when my PF01's arrive they should clear comfortably.


    All in all the kit bolted up very easily, with a couple of things worth noting. Here is a diary.


    Old Rotor and caliper destined for the scrap bin.



    Making way for the newer model





    The brake lines are highly generic and we needed to butcher the old lines and reuse the grommet to fit in the clip. Without this the lines would flap around and snag on things.



    Fitted up along with new, extended wheel studs.




    Alcon Caliper top left, OEM Caliper Top Right (1.3kg saving)
    The Alcon Rotor weighs 300g more than the DBA5000 I was running but at 332mm diameter and 28mm wide has much more thermal capacity, as well as the benefit of it being a full floating rotor hat. These rotors really are the shit.



    As for the feel, there is a bit of a learning curve involved as the pedal is firmer and these calipers are definitely more powerful. My main concern is whether we have shifted the brake bias too far forward as it is very easy to lock the fronts up now. I might need to play around with some less aggressive pads in the front to restore the brake bias, but until i've hit the racetrack I can't really say for sure.
    Last edited by Reedy; 17-12-2017 at 05:28 PM.

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    Lachlan's Avatar
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    These are sick, nice work. Will you look into rear calipers if you can't balance it with pads? Wouldn't it be hard to get consistent balance through the whole temp range by changing pads only, especially if you have to do it for track and daily driving?

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    Yea there will be some trial and error that's for sure. I think what I need is a pad with slightly less initial bite than the carbotech XP10 I am currently running. I will know more after the next track day I go to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reedy View Post
    Yea there will be some trial and error that's for sure. I think what I need is a pad with slightly less initial bite than the carbotech XP10 I am currently running. I will know more after the next track day I go to.
    For daily driving, aren't those pads a bit aggressive to start with?

    And keen to see how you progress with these! And how much difference they make...
    Newbie FAQ My Build Thread
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    3" HTP | 100 Cel DP | Autotech HPFP | AP V3 - Self Tuned on E20 | JBR RSB | CPE S2 REM | JBR Shifter Bushings

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    I've used the Xp10 on the street for ages with the stock brakes and they were always fine. Noisy, but perfectly driveable. The new Alcons take way less pedal effort so the aggressive pads are starting to really show.

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    We have played around with some wheels now and so far can say the following:


    OEM Gen 2 Wheels: Needs about 10mm worth of spacing
    Gen 1 RX8 Wheels: Needs about 8mm of spacing
    Enkei Fujin 18x8 +50: Needs about 2-3mm spacing. +45 Offset would fit
    Enkei Raijin 18x8 +45: Looks like it will clear
    Enkei PF01 18x8 +50: Currently on order and awaiting delivery. (I will set fire to people if they don't fit, but I am fairly confident they will)

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    After a bit more driving and a chance to lay down a proper transfer layer and bed the brakes in they are getting a lot easier to modulate and drive much more smoothly. I just need these damn wheels to arrive so I can hit the racetrack!

    WTB Enkei PF01 18x8 +50.

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    How often did passengers hit their foreheads on the dash?

    Glad they're starting to bed in happily!

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    New Wheels arrived. Fitment is closer than I thought it would be but that was one huge sigh of relief I just breathed.






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    That's so nice!
    Glad they fit properly!
    What's the weight difference between these and current track rims?

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    Looks mint, can't wait to see your impression once tracked!

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    Pretty similar. These are less than 9kgs on my bathroom scales per wheel. I haven't weighed the bare Fujins but according to enkei the new ones should be about 300g lighter.
    Last edited by Reedy; 02-08-2016 at 08:48 AM.

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    Tyres fitted and looking good. These wheels will never be this clean ever again.



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    First track day with the new brakes today. I made the mistake of thinking a set of XP8 pads in the front would help compensate for the brake bias. Instead I just got a set of brake pads that just don't bite all that well and felt meek and shit.


    Once fully bedded in they did fine but next time I will use the XP10 and slap myself in the balls for ever second guessing them.


    All that said, I still set a PB by over a second on the SMSP GP Circuit so i'm definitely doing something right. I am putting most of that down to a new tune tho. The data shows this tune just walking away from the old one on the straights while braking performance is more or less unchanged.

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    Fastest lap of the day:

    https://youtu.be/zYIVoosnh4w

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    I love seeing other Hot Hatches at track days. Mostly because of how good it feels to drive straight past them.

    https://youtu.be/jKRbLBu5EIg

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    Nice driving! And congrats on the new pb...

    Was the focus tuned/modded?

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    Nah he said it was stock. Apart from brakes and suspension.

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    Very nice.

    I had Evo Brembos which I was going to fit to my 6 MPS, but I decided to sell them and get the Powerbrake BBK instead. Unfortunately after several attempts I didn't get any response from them on price or availability.

    What's the deal with the Alcons? Are they off the shelf for the 3 MPS, or did they require a custom dog-bone adapter?

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    They are off the shelf. Come with Dog Bone and everything.

    Talk to 2NV Industries about the 6 - He has a solution for you guys but it might also require new wheels, or spacers.

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    Another track day yesterday with the XP10 back in. I beat on these brakes like never before and they were amazing, 100% consistent every single lap.


    The better heat management is noticeable too. They aren't absolutely roaring hot after a session like the oem ones were, they run so much cooler that the front tyre pressure rise is actually 1-2psi less as well.


    Better pedal progression and release modulation makes trail braking and rotating the car on turn in even more controllable than before. This was my main concern as I was was worried any more forward bias might cause the car to push.
    Stopping distances are maybe slightly better but it's mostly the extra consistency that breeds confidence that I am liking.

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    Finally got the brake lines fully sorted. New lines with a nice aluminium billet grommet. Much better than our hack job from the initial install



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    YAY! Update! It's time for an update!


    The Alcon Rotors that came with this kit are a street focused steel, they did fine at the racetrack as well but I heat damaged and wore them down enough to warrant replacing them.


    Enter Forza, these are a motorsports grade steel so should last a bit longer than the Alcon ones did, with the added benefit of being HALF THE PRICE.





    Some specs and part numbers



    Old one disassembled with the Rotor hat ready to bolt up to the new ones



    Couldn't help but weigh them after assembly, for those playing along at home these are about 600g lighter than the Alcons were which makes them even lighter than the DBA5000 rotors I was using with the stock brake setup. Not bad considering they are 12mm larger in diameter and 3mm thicker.



    Not sure i'm a fan of this kind of aggressive branding but whatever.



    They look pretty cool, altho it's hard to compete with the presence that the Alcon rotor slot pattern has.



    All done.



    Been out to give them a quick run and bed the pads down as well. One thing i've noticed immediately is these ones are a lot more forgiving at the start, the Alcon ones had extremely coarse machining marks on the rotor surface that made them extremely abrasive at first and I didn't like that at all. These ones have a much smoother surface from the factory which makes them a lot less grabby.


    It's the middle of summer here right now so will probably be a while before I get a chance to hit the racetrack with them, but i'll be back with the final report after i've done a track day or 2. The alcon slot pattern actually made a bit of a funny noise under hard braking so it will be interesting to see if these resolve that.

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    Jealous. They look awesome. re: branding - yes I'm a bit dubious about that too, I like things to be understated, but still.... awesome. Should be good for the track, I imagine

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    Looks awesome and keen to hear how they go in the track. I'm surprised the alcon ones were street-focussed. What's the downside for using race-focussed steel?

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