How to Handle Handling?

[LRRH]

No worries Alex. Definitely a noticeable improvement...

[chef]

Ok good advice there, I'll lower it and then see what needs doing. My guess is that I'll need to reduce the camber because this is how it stands already! O_o





I'm intrigued about this 'anti lift kit', @MPSBNE mentioned it earlier and said he noticed a difference with it too. Are you meaning that it helps the wheels track straight when going over bumps?
Like the bump steer kit does for corners, or am I completely off the point?

I also agree about installing single things at a time, that's how i've approached things so far, and will continue to do so.

What makes it lean in like that, is that a good thing?

[GibbA]

That's camber. A) gives more lateral grip during cornering, and B) is needed if you have to fit silly wheels under your guards if lowered. There in ends my knowledge.

[chef]

Oh ok, would that be called - camber then?

[AzzA SP20]

caster is pulling the rack of its axis as such... this increasing camber during cornering only. benefit of both worlds... minimum daily tread wear with max cornering grip.
also increases the weight of the steering which i definitely like

- - - Updated - - -

if you like i can do a full break down of geometry???
with pos and neg effects?

[GibbA]

If you like i can do a full break down of geometry???
with pos and neg effects?

Well the thread is called "how to handle handling" so all information on this topic is more than welcome in here.

I'm interested, the guys who were at wakefield park on saturday, what are your specs/modicifations associated with making your cars go around corners better? @SarcasticOne, @Reedy, @Jamesa2z, @ledfootrob

[ledfootrob]

Well the thread is called "how to handle handling" so all information on this topic is more than welcome in here.

I'm interested, the guys who were at wakefield park on saturday, what are your specs/modicifations associated with making your cars go around corners better? @SarcasticOne, @Reedy, @Jamesa2z, @ledfootrob

I have Bilstein B8 shocks, Corksport Springs and a Whiteline Rear Sway Bar. My settings are close to stock in regards to Camber etc but I will eventually get rear toe/camber arms for some rear adjustment. I was running Toyo R888 semi slicks which made a huge difference with traction at the track too. I drive a lot of highway/city to and from work so SOME comfort was a consideration when getting my suspension sorted. My car handles pretty well and even on 19's I think it feels better than stock suspension did on 18's.

[Jamesa2z]

Well the thread is called "how to handle handling" so all information on this topic is more than welcome in here.

I'm interested, the guys who were at wakefield park on saturday, what are your specs/modicifations associated with making your cars go around corners better? @SarcasticOne, @Reedy, @Jamesa2z, @ledfootrob

At this stage, all I've done suspension wise is a whiteline rear sway bar and I was rolling on Kumho KU36s.

Tyres are definitely the biggest thing as @ledfootrob mentioned, but you would need to weigh up the down sides of R spec tyres for street driving (road noise, ride quality, etc).

[SarcasticOne]

Hankook rs3s
Stock shocks and springs
Jbr RSB on middle setting
I'm not losing that much corner speed to the others, most of my time is lost in braking points, I'm doing it much earlier than they are...

[RedDjinn]

Hankook rs3s
Stock shocks and springs
Jbr RSB on middle setting
I'm not losing that much corner speed to the others, most of my time is lost in braking points, I'm doing it much earlier than they are...

This says it well @SarcasticOne. If you want good handling leave stock add RSB/bracing. Great handling comes with more experience and reading experimenting driving DD/track adjusting . Lowering can come with pain if you don't know or get bad advice....

[SarcasticOne]

This says it well. If you want good handling leave stock add RSB/bracing. Great handling comes with more experience and reading experimenting driving DD/track adjusting .

Well, @Reedy is exception, but @Jamesa2z went faster than Rob with less power, worse tires, and stock suspension... I believe reedy managed 1.10's on stock suspension at WP

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

[RedDjinn]

I need to take a day off work and get to a track day, see how bad I am

[AzzA SP20]

One good thing I should add...

The fastest track times will come from driver experience....

but I think just as importantly, it comes from how well the driver knows his car and how comfortable he or she I should add is with pushing the car to its limits.

You can have the best grip in the world... but if you cant use it its a waste.

Hence why alot of stock cars set better times than modded ones... because the driver feels more comfortable with the stock one and can push it harder

[Jamesa2z]

You also need to keep in mind that at the end of the day, the MPS is a high powered FWD car. I know my in-car footage doesn't show the extent of the understeer that is present around some corners and I doubt that even Reedy's suspension overhaul could eradicate the inherent understeer entirely - but it is what it is.

Always driving to the strengths of the car and being acutely aware of the weaknesses is essential. No point driving the MPS like an Evo or STI, you'll just end up hurting yourself lol.

[Ben992]

Whoever said -2.5 is ridiculous. Hardly.


IMG_7574_edit by Photographs_by_Ben, on Flickr

I dont know how much your running gibba, but it looks more than -2.5

The camber i'm running doesn't jeopardise any kind of handling at all. If i didn't have the camber, i'd have a 4x4 as i couldn't fit the wheels on

I think your first step is to go coilovers and see how you go. I'm after a front strut brace, but haven't really found any??

[ledfootrob]

Well, @Reedy is exception, but @Jamesa2z went faster than Rob with less power, worse tires, and stock suspension... I believe reedy managed 1.10's on stock suspension at WP

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

Experience and how hard you wanna push your car is what will yield you faster lap times at the track, was my first track day and I only improved with each session.

[GibbA]

I agree about knowing your car. My old sp20, I can throw it around, and know right where the limit of it letting go it and get it there. Know exactly when it's going to understeer, how it's going to respond in a corner etc etc. This however only came with driving it every day for 2 years.
This has made me appreciate that only time will help you gain experience, and experience is what I want. Drive lots, and observe and learn as much as I can. Thats what I'm wanting to do, and that's why I started this thread.
It's just like at go karts (kind of) where they are all the same, but the heaviest guy can go way faster than the lightest guy if he knows how far it can be pushed, and can keep it right there on the edge.

You also need to keep in mind that at the end of the day, the MPS is a high powered FWD car. I know my in-car footage doesn't show the extent of the understeer that is present around some corners and I doubt that even Reedy's suspension overhaul could eradicate the inherent understeer entirely - but it is what it is.

Always driving to the strengths of the car and being acutely aware of the weaknesses is essential. No point driving the MPS like an Evo or STI, you'll just end up hurting yourself lol.

Yeah I understand that, and guess it's good i'm not coming from a RWD/AWD car, so it's no completely different in this regard, (though it is reasonable different because of LSD and power etc).
That said, I still want to do all I can to minimise these negative traits of a FWD car, and that's why I'm asking opinions

[GibbA]

Whoever said -2.5 is ridiculous. Hardly.


IMG_7574_edit by Photographs_by_Ben, on Flickr

I dont know how much your running gibba, but it looks more than -2.5

The camber i'm running doesn't jeopardise any kind of handling at all. If i didn't have the camber, i'd have a 4x4 as i couldn't fit the wheels on

I think your first step is to go coilovers and see how you go. I'm after a front strut brace, but haven't really found any??

Yeah I've got no idea how much mine is. I wouldn't have thought you could get that much with stock setup though... I really should pull the rear wheels off and suss it all out under there and see what's going on. Might learn a thing or two
Kinda scary that there's going to be MORE when I lower. As I've said before though (and will say again) i'm only going an inch or so, because anything more and it's just going to be worse, and to annoing to drive around.
I find it a pain to jack up already, and going lower is only going to make things more annoying.

You don't have a shot up the side of your car like my pictures are? You can't really see the camber on your wheels too well anyway...

[lup15]

Whoever said -2.5 is ridiculous. Hardly.

I dont know how much your running gibba, but it looks more than -2.5

The camber i'm running doesn't jeopardise any kind of handling at all. If i didn't have the camber, i'd have a 4x4 as i couldn't fit the wheels on

I think your first step is to go coilovers and see how you go. I'm after a front strut brace, but haven't really found any??

-2.5 is way too much for the street, both front and rear. it will just smash the inside tread of the tyres and also decrease your acceleration and braking effectiveness. you can't see how much camber there is just by looking at it. its like saying 30psi tyre pressure looks the same as 35psi but its a world of difference.

if you don't want the car to understeer, -2.5 is way too much in the rear if you have -2.5 on the front, just the nature of a FF platform. It seems the primary concern you are running that camber is to fit the wheels.

[GibbA]

How does rear camber affect understeer? That last sentence of yours didn't make a great deal of sense.. (Either that or i'm too tired to understand)