Identify this noise? VVT, or something else?

[Danger629]

Hey guys,

Just wondering if anyone could spare 21 seconds and have a listen to this noise:

IMG 1474 - YouTube

It is only really noticeable in the cabin, and usually only occurs at high engine temps, (ie. warm/hot day idling in traffic). It has been much quieter during the past few weeks with the cold weather.

It almost sounds like the engine is rattling against the firewall. At first I thought it might be crappy engine mounts, but the drivers side and REM have both been changed recently, and the noise still occurs.

This has me thinking it could be a VVT issue. The car also clunks and shudders when the engine is switched off too, and I think this could be related.

Notice the noise goes away when I rev it slightly, then returns when it settles back into a low idle.

Thanks in advance!

[Robmps]

Hard to tell, another clip with the motor running under the bonnet might help

[Danger629]

I'll try and get an under bonnet video tomorrow. The problem is that outside the car I can't really hear anything abnormal above the sound of the injectors, I was hoping this was kind of a 'trademark' noise related to a slack timing chain or something.

Thanks for your help so far, I'll keep investigating!

[Axspeed6]

its your timing chain 100% its too stretched, sounds like a loud engine knock??? mine had the same noise when i brought it, it only happens when it gets right up to temp when the oil is at or just past 100 deg the noise is actually the vvt trying to adjust for this stretch, its the inlet cam thats the prob it actually wont sit at tdc like the exhaust cam will (hence the great need for the cam timing tool) its at this flicking/rollover point at tdc that the noise is caused as the chain in between the cam sprockets goes slack then tightens back up as it flicks over the rollover point on the cam

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

best way too tell where a noise is coming from just get a longish screw driver put the metal end on metal around where you think the noise is coming from and put you ear close to the other end but not touching (some screw drivers work better then others eg hard handled ones transmit sound easier and clearer)

[Danger629]

Thank you Axspeed, very helpful reply! I will call Mazda tomorrow morning and get them to take a look at it ASAP.

One more question, this noise has been happening since I bought the car just over 6 months ago. Would it have caused any damage to the engine? I haven't noticed any other major issues, and it is making good power.

I actually took it to Mazda a few months ago, and they told me it was probably a sagged drivers side engine mount. Replaced it, and the noise still happens, so here I am today!

Anyway thanks again!

[Axspeed6]

mate mazda mechanics dont know crap all about these motors the way they say to time the car in there own manual is wrong and to ask them to open one up is like telling them to commit suicide werribe mazda just said no me when i called them about mine so i brought the timing tools and did it myself $85 for the chain from mazda or they are cheaper on ebay look under mazdaspeed 6 on the us site, no .au, saved myself prob $1000+ on labor

[MPS2NV]

Any chance you know the correct timing chain installation procedure?

mate mazda mechanics dont know crap all about these motors the way they say to time the car in there own manual is wrong and to ask them to open one up is like telling them to commit suicide werribe mazda just said no me when i called them about mine so i brought the timing tools and did it myself $85 for the chain from mazda or they are cheaper on ebay look under mazdaspeed 6 on the us site, no .au, saved myself prob $1000+ on labor

[RedDjinn]

Any chance you know the correct timing chain installation procedure?

@MPS2NV You need to get a ute/van and trailer (fulling inclosed/kitted to work in) with all the tools you need to fix our cars u'd make a mint!! lol.. plus see this big country... Im sure Em would love to travel australia

[Axspeed6]

Any chance you know the correct timing chain installation procedure?

yes i do i have written it up somewhere on here but i'll post a "how to" soon and when i take my head off for new valves , dual spring valve springs and the DCR VVT actuator i'll post pics and im also doing my injector seals and vacts delete + EGR delete

[Danger629]

Update: Today I rang two mazda dealerships in my area. I spoke to the service manager of the first place, and he said that in his 8 years of working there he had NEVER seen anything to do with timing chains or VVT for any MPS. He wanted to book me in for a diagnosis because he questioned why I thought it was the timing chain/VVT despite me telling him of the TSB and the fact it was a well documented issue.

The second place said that they have done a few VVTs in the past, but could not give me a quote on cost as they haven't done one in a while. I would essentially have to book it in, hope that my diagnosis is correct and furthermore hope that they replace the correct parts without then saying I'm liable for $1800 or something ridiculous.

I would love to save the labour charges and do it myself, but I don't have the tools, or the skills to do it. Also if I stuff it up and the engine gets damaged or it happens again I would be liable for repair bills, which I do not want.

[dazza]

Alot of the Mazda stealerships are a bit of a worry with the MPS, they don't seem to know squat about them. Im 99% sure they put the wrong amount of oil in mine since it was half empty when I checked it a week after service. Good luck mate

[Danger629]

Alot of the Mazda stealerships are a bit of a worry with the MPS, they don't seem to know squat about them. Im 99% sure they put the wrong amount of oil in mine since it was half empty when I checked it a week after service. Good luck mate

That is quite worrying, I think they broke a nipple on my TIP a while ago, car dyno'd at 123kw before I got it fixed lol.

Anyway I just did the test where I let the engine run for about 20 seconds to build oil pressure, then stuck my finger in to see if I could move the chain. I could barely move the chain, it felt tight. At an estimate, I was only able to move it a couple of mm at most putting a fair bit of upward pressure on it. It was not flopping about like I thought it would be.

The problem now is I can't replicate the noise in this cold weather so it'll be harder to diagnose. I only get the clunking when I turn the car off:

IMG 1531 - YouTube

[Axspeed6]

Update: Today I rang two mazda dealerships in my area. I spoke to the service manager of the first place, and he said that in his 8 years of working there he had NEVER seen anything to do with timing chains or VVT for any MPS. He wanted to book me in for a diagnosis because he questioned why I thought it was the timing chain/VVT despite me telling him of the TSB and the fact it was a well documented issue.

The second place said that they have done a few VVTs in the past, but could not give me a quote on cost as they haven't done one in a while. I would essentially have to book it in, hope that my diagnosis is correct and furthermore hope that they replace the correct parts without then saying I'm liable for $1800 or something ridiculous.

I would love to save the labour charges and do it myself, but I don't have the tools, or the skills to do it. Also if I stuff it up and the engine gets damaged or it happens again I would be liable for repair bills, which I do not want.

Z he hasnt done many mps's with over 80,000k on the clock like i said the mazda mechanics hate these motors and i can see why and its also why he didn't want to give you a quote, the vvt makes it loud at start up (noisy valves) not when its hot

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------

That is quite worrying, I think they broke a nipple on my TIP a while ago, car dyno'd at 123kw before I got it fixed lol.

Anyway I just did the test where I let the engine run for about 20 seconds to build oil pressure, then stuck my finger in to see if I could move the chain. I could barely move the chain, it felt tight. At an estimate, I was only able to move it a couple of mm at most putting a fair bit of upward pressure on it. It was not flopping about like I thought it would be.

The problem now is I can't replicate the noise in this cold weather so it'll be harder to diagnose. I only get the clunking when I turn the car off:

IMG 1531 - YouTube

the prob is inbetween the cams and no it wont feel floppy if it was floppy you'd have bent valves the slack it very little but is visible if you have the rocker cover off and spin the crank by hand

[Danger629]

Z he hasnt done many mps's with over 80,000k on the clock like i said the mazda mechanics hate these motors and i can see why and its also why he didn't want to give you a quote, the vvt makes it loud at start up (noisy valves) not when its hot

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------



the prob is inbetween the cams and no it wont feel floppy if it was floppy you'd have bent valves the slack it very little but is visible if you have the rocker cover off and spin the crank by hand

Yeah it seems like Mazda mechanics are absolutely useless. I will give S & J a call tomorrow to see if they'll do it.

So what do I need to get replaced to fix it? Just the timing chain? Or should I get the tensioner and actuator done as well as per the TSB?

[Axspeed6]

get it all done at once that way you know its strong, go all out and get one of these to Darrell Cox Racing - DCR VVT Actuator (Powered by CubeCart)

[High on PSI]

I have this knocking noise.. I was told that it's the direct injectors.. lol and you can only hear it when the oil is hot and isn't thick

[MPS2NV]

They are like **** to deal with!

get it all done at once that way you know its strong, go all out and get one of these to Darrell Cox Racing - DCR VVT Actuator (Powered by CubeCart)

[Danger629]

I have this knocking noise.. I was told that it's the direct injectors.. lol and you can only hear it when the oil is hot and isn't thick

Yeah I've barely noticed it lately with the cold weather, apart from when I shut the car down for a few seconds. Maybe switching to a thicker oil might help, but I'm already running a 10W-40 and I don't really want to go much thicker than that.

I always thought that the injectors made that signature ticking noise that comes from the passenger side of the engine. Anyway if I find out what the noise is I'll let you know! My money is on timing chain.

[Axspeed6]

I have this knocking noise.. I was told that it's the direct injectors.. lol and you can only hear it when the oil is hot and isn't thick

you got told Wrong because you can here the injectors all the time if you couldnt your engine wouldn't be working

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------

They are like **** to deal with!

????

[MPS2NV]

They are not very responsive, thats all. They are def in now hurry to give me their paypal info or send my VVT back to me.